My number came up on the waiting list... but ADM

[Blk2015GT]

the world DOES NOT revolve around you.

this x10000000000000000000000000000

Take the deal or don't and don't get one and/or wait until prices comes down, it's a free market.

No one ever guaranteed you one of these cars at all, it's a luxury not a necessity you are guaranteed in life. If someone is willing to pay more than you then they get it. This happens all over your life- any auction, ebay, houses, anything where there are more than 1 interested party in a limited item. YOU CHOOSE to pay or wait for another to come up for sale to try to get. The whining is strong about nothing new.

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[Jackie Chan]

You can't see how a dealer gouging a customer over msrp is not an insult? Let me guess.... you are in the car business. LOL :lol:

The thing with a dealer selling these things for msrp is that for every real car guy like us there are about 50 flippers calling them. The market value....not msrp, is a way to get the flippers off of your car.

most dealers that have been around for awhile would rather sell cars like this under market value....at msrp, to previous customers or at least local people to build a loyal base of customers.


When I was at my last place, the first round of bosses came out and this guy got ahold of our gm/owner and gave him some sob story about needing the car to fulfill a dream he's had and this other bs. Well about 3 weeks later ford corporate was all over us for selling to a broker since the car was for sale on eBay for 10k over.

 

[ElSanchez302]

The thing with a dealer selling these things for msrp is that for every real car guy like us there are about 50 flippers calling them. The market value....not msrp, is a way to get the flippers off of your car.

Bingo. And more importantly, we want those customer who would pay a broker to be coming directly to us rather than through a third party. It's easier/better for both sides.

Get real. Almost all dealers charge a "document" fee of several hundred dollars on every car they sell. Those business office folks get paid from a pretty small portion of that fee. The rest of that fee is pure profit for the dealer.

Doc fee is $80 in California. Not the same as where you are, which, is more reason for you to understand not everything is the same from state to state.

 

[Cruzinaround]

Bad blood to who though? Even if that customer/person in that family was buying a car this year too, margins on new cars how I understand it are relatively small.

Take a GT Premium. The dealer cost is $33,216 with a MSRP of $36,300 for that car. So the dealer makes $3000 IF they get MSRP which few pay MSRP on a regular car (Mustang GT). Then they get a holdback from the manufacturer of $1,089. So IF they sell at MSRP the dealer gets $4,089 before paying the salesman commission- usually a few hundred bucks.

If they sell it at $2,000 under MSRP (still $1,000 over invoice) the dealer made $2,089 and still have to pay their salesman commission out of that which is a few hundred bucks; 20-25% of the profit as I understand it from reading online. It's not a whole ton of money when people are paying less than MSRP then for a run of the mill car- maybe even $1,500 on a new GT Premium dealership profit.

If the dealer can get $10k over MSRP for ADM that's pure profit to them in their pocket on top of what their profit would've been at MSRP. That could be equivalent to the profit on quite a few new car sales (or more if the ADM is higher); a lot more profit than losing that 1 sale.

Everything you said here is why they need to move their inventory quickly and in volume. Hedging all their bets on a single car? Really? Makes no sense.

And if they sell a car in an hour or two and make a 2.5k profit of which the salesman gets a 6% commission... just nets that salesman $150 plus whatever spiff and factory incentives that the dealer can either pass onto the buyer or keep for himself so lets round that up to $250 for 2 hours of their time.

Well... its not a waste of time..they made money without being a sleaze ball.

And this is a commission over their base salary. Yes a salary.

What Is the Average Salary of a Car Salesman in New York?
By Wilhelm Schnotz
eHow Contributor

Nationwide, automotive sales positions make up 37 percent of all positions in automotive dealerships, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Occupational Outlook Handbook. With dealers often transitioning from commission-based pay to a more stable salaried income, the industry is in a period where earnings --- as well as job stability --- may vary greatly among dealerships, making accurate estimations of New York salesmen salaries difficult.

Average New York State Salary
The middle 50 percent of salaries for automotive sales staff who work at new and used dealerships in the state of New York range from $30,495 to $53,062 as of January 2011, according to PayScale. Because salesmen's earnings often depend upon sales commissions, their earnings may vary greatly by their position, their abilities and the average sales price of the cars they sell. Salesmen who work at commissioned dealerships often only earn commission on the profit made on selling a vehicle.

Average New York City New-Car Sales Salary
In New York City, the average annual salary for a new-car salesman is $27,916 as of January 2011, according to Salary Expert. Although this is lower than the average salary reported for the state, it's the highest figure for new-car sales figures in the 10 cities surveyed by Salary Expert. These salary figures may represent base salaries, with many salesmen receiving additional commission payments for sales made.

Average New York City Used-Car Sales Salary
Used-car dealers in New York earn more than their new-car counterparts, according to Salary Expert. Used-car sales staff earn average annual salaries of $35,098 in New York City as of January 2011. These higher salaries may represent the larger profit margin typically associated with used-car sales as opposed to those coming directly from the factory.

National Average Earnings
After commission and base salaries are calculated, car sales representatives nationwide earn the equivalent of $18.91 per hour as of May 2008, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Workers employed full-time at this wage earn $37,820 annually. The midpoint of PayScale's salary range for statewide earnings, $41,778.50, is 10 percent higher than average national earnings.

BASICALLY...if they aren't happy with the money they make being an honest salesman...they should look for a different line of work and stop perpetuating their own sleazy stereotypes. Or hand the reigns over to the direct buy model and get the hell out of the picture.

 

[garagelogic]

Bingo. And more importantly, we want those customer who would pay a broker to be coming directly to us rather than through a third party. It's easier/better for both sides.



Doc fee is $80 in California. Not the same as where you are, which, is more reason for you to understand not everything is the same from state to state.

I get that doc fees vary by location, but that does not change the fact that you charge it on top of the negotiated price of a car. In your post, you made it sound like the pay for your business office staff is included in the cost of the car. It is not.

 

[Blk2015GT]

Everything you said here is why they need to move their inventory quickly and in volume. Hedging all their bets on a single car? Really? Makes no sense.

And if they sell a car in an hour or two and make a 2.5k profit of which the salesman gets a 6% commission... just nets that salesman $150 plus whatever spiff and factory incentives that the dealer can either pass onto the buyer or keep for himself so lets round that up to $250 for 2 hours of their time.

Well... its not a waste of time..they made money without being a sleaze ball.

And this is a commission over their base salary. Yes a salary.

What Is the Average Salary of a Car Salesman in New York?
By Wilhelm Schnotz
eHow Contributor

Nationwide, automotive sales positions make up 37 percent of all positions in automotive dealerships, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Occupational Outlook Handbook. With dealers often transitioning from commission-based pay to a more stable salaried income, the industry is in a period where earnings --- as well as job stability --- may vary greatly among dealerships, making accurate estimations of New York salesmen salaries difficult.

Average New York State Salary
The middle 50 percent of salaries for automotive sales staff who work at new and used dealerships in the state of New York range from $30,495 to $53,062 as of January 2011, according to PayScale. Because salesmen's earnings often depend upon sales commissions, their earnings may vary greatly by their position, their abilities and the average sales price of the cars they sell. Salesmen who work at commissioned dealerships often only earn commission on the profit made on selling a vehicle.

Average New York City New-Car Sales Salary
In New York City, the average annual salary for a new-car salesman is $27,916 as of January 2011, according to Salary Expert. Although this is lower than the average salary reported for the state, it's the highest figure for new-car sales figures in the 10 cities surveyed by Salary Expert. These salary figures may represent base salaries, with many salesmen receiving additional commission payments for sales made.

Average New York City Used-Car Sales Salary
Used-car dealers in New York earn more than their new-car counterparts, according to Salary Expert. Used-car sales staff earn average annual salaries of $35,098 in New York City as of January 2011. These higher salaries may represent the larger profit margin typically associated with used-car sales as opposed to those coming directly from the factory.

National Average Earnings
After commission and base salaries are calculated, car sales representatives nationwide earn the equivalent of $18.91 per hour as of May 2008, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Workers employed full-time at this wage earn $37,820 annually. The midpoint of PayScale's salary range for statewide earnings, $41,778.50, is 10 percent higher than average national earnings.

BASICALLY...if they aren't happy with the money they make being an honest salesman...they should look for a different line of work and stop perpetuating their own sleazy stereotypes. Or hand the reigns over to the direct buy model and get the hell out of the picture.

Who said they are "hedging their bets?" That would entail the notion of a risk. There is zero risk here as, as others have pointed out in their own experiences, people are offering ADM and above to get a spot all day long.

A page or 2 back a dealer out of state offered $35k OVER ADM for an "R" That's far from a bet, that dealer to dealer sale will make many many cars worth of profit off of that 1 sale, above what they make at MSRP as ADM is 100% pure profit. $35k pure profit is selling, what, even if they pay 6% commission, like 10-15 normal priced other cars on the lot plus the normal profit up to the MSRP on it? That's a pretty good day work.

No one is hedging anything, there are actual high above ADM offers being currently made. It's just unfortunate people have an entitlement complex but dont want to pay the price of admission to play the game and think Ford owes it to them somehow.

 

[Poppacapp]

Only someone who hates a dealer, as you appear too, would call it gouging.

Business 101. Don't leave money on the table.

Business 101-A. The market for any product is set by what one is willing to pay for it.

I think I've covered that. I guess you and I won't get one, sucks, but that's the biz.

I actually do not want one. I am waiting for the GT500 variant, and am willing to wait for msrp on that too. I don't HAVE to have anything bad enough to throw that money away like that on adm.

 

[Poppacapp]

Or they can see which dealer CAN guarantee them a car if they are ok with ADM.

You must be a peach to work with. :lol:

I'm fun mang! Come visit meh!

 

[Poppacapp]

this x10000000000000000000000000000

Take the deal or don't and don't get one and/or wait until prices comes down, it's a free market.

No one ever guaranteed you one of these cars at all, it's a luxury not a necessity you are guaranteed in life. If someone is willing to pay more than you then they get it. This happens all over your life- any auction, ebay, houses, anything where there are more than 1 interested party in a limited item. YOU CHOOSE to pay or wait for another to come up for sale to try to get. The whining is strong about nothing new.

You are right. We CHOOSE. And we will CHOOSE to do business with the straight up, non-greedy dealers. addle:

 

[Blk2015GT]

You are right. We CHOOSE. And we will CHOOSE to do business with the straight up, non-greedy dealers. addle:

It's business- capitalism. The same thing happens in many businesses daily, and in much bigger scale. There won't be many dealerships out of the 5,000 they build that sell them for MSRP in 2016.

Any business owner small to large tries to make the most profit possible on their service/item. Small have a lot more control over pricing dealing directly with customers, but every business selling goods or services has the goal of making max profits.

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

It's business- capitalism. The same thing happens in many businesses daily, and in much bigger scale. There won't be many dealerships out of the 5,000 they build that sell them for MSRP in 2016.

Any business owner small to large tries to make the most profit possible on their service/item. Small have a lot more control over pricing dealing directly with customers, but every business selling goods or services has the goal of making max profits.

Now that's not completely true. There are many businesses with moral owners who understand the intrinsic value of a product i.e. what it cost to produce such as the invoice price of the gt350, and then add the cost of providing them their overhead , capitalization, and other business costs as well as what profit gives them a reasonable income to afford food, shelter, education, healthcare, retirement, etc. That is not millions of dollars nor is it ridiculous ADM's. Capitalism without a moral component is a failure. Not to be too political but isn't it interesting to see the ADM's from the left coast where supposedly everybody cares about their neighbor and the small town midwest where they really do.

 

[grayforge]

While I'm all for reasonable capitalism, jacking prices way over retail is too much.

Do you see any Apple Stores putting a $200 markup on the latest iPhone or Apple Watch? Or game stores marking up the latest PlayStation 4 or XBox One?

 

[mustang_lurkers]

I would definately jump to another brand before paying 10k, 15k or 20k over MSRP.

 

[aethyr]

It's business- capitalism. The same thing happens in many businesses daily, and in much bigger scale. There won't be many dealerships out of the 5,000 they build that sell them for MSRP in 2016.

Any business owner small to large tries to make the most profit possible on their service/item. Small have a lot more control over pricing dealing directly with customers, but every business selling goods or services has the goal of making max profits.

Sigh. Its not capitalism. It's not a fair "fight" when you've bribed the referee to change the rules just for you, which is exactly what car dealerships did when they lobbied government to make it illegal for manufacturers to sell direct to consumers. What's hilarious is that it wasn't even their own dealer, but rather a new one, Tesla. How does Tesla selling direct affect a Ford/GM/Toyota/Honda dealer?

It doesn't, other than set the precedence for Ford/GM/Toyota/Honda to follow suit and do the same. THAT is what the dealers were afraid of, that they would no longer be able to price gouge and charge above MSRP on the foolish or the impulsive. They were afraid of competition, so they made their competition illegal. You can buy just about anything direct from the manufacturer, other than cars. Capitalism my ass.

 

[aethyr]

I would definately jump to another brand before paying 10k, 15k or 20k over MSRP.

I like the 350 for what if offers at its MSRP price point. The moment it hits 10k or 20k over, there simply better cars at those prices.

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