My number came up on the waiting list... but ADM

[Jackie Chiles]

I like the 350 for what if offers at its MSRP price point. The moment it hits 10k or 20k over, there simply better cars at those prices.

Not everyone will feel that way tho. There are many who must have a GT350.

But I'm not one of them. M2, M4, TTS, RS3, CLA45 AMG, Cayman S/GTS, etc., etc. All are in my wheelhouse along with the GT350. ADM would kill the deal for me on a GT350, or anything else for that matter.

We live in a good time to be a motorhead, and I'm glad that there will be so many options. But being a motorhead does not mean that you have carte blanche to make foolish economic decisions, even if there are dealers who try to justify ADMs to themselves and their customers.

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[Dr Chill]

I like the 350 for what if offers at its MSRP price point. The moment it hits 10k or 20k over, there simply better cars at those prices.

This. Regardless of the performance, it is not built like a Porsche. And for 10-20k over you're in Cayman S and GT4 territory.

 

[Hack]

I like the 350 for what if offers at its MSRP price point. The moment it hits 10k or 20k over, there simply better cars at those prices.

I'm not so sure. I've looked at Porsche and BMW and maybe the most loaded GT350R + 20k you might be near one of them, but if you are looking at a lower option GT350 and 10k over it's hard to get into a competitive Porsche or BMW at that price (somewhere in the 60s).

Especially Porsche - unless you want a car with 200 something horsepower and zero options you are looking at a lot more cash.

 

[L8APEX]

While I'm all for reasonable capitalism, jacking prices way over retail is too much.

Do you see any Apple Stores putting a $200 markup on the latest iPhone or Apple Watch? Or game stores marking up the latest PlayStation 4 or XBox One?

I bet if you offered the dealer MSRP and you had a cheque in hand, the dealer will probably accept your offer.

Solution for not paying over MSRP? Shop around

 

[adrift]

This. Regardless of the performance, it is not built like a Porsche. And for 10-20k over you're in Cayman S and GT4 territory.

Agreed!

There are 2 problems for selling a GT350 with ADM.
First is the competition, in addition there is the C7 and a lightly loaded M4 or C63 to consider. Much better build quality on the German makes.

Second is that selling anything above retail IS gouging in my book. I'm sure many Americans, thought not all prospective buyers, feel the same way.

It would be different if dealers could be counted on to offer a service or any kind of value added - but most of the time the salesman don't know what the hell they're selling and then you gotta watch your back to make sure the dealer doesn't stab you. I bought a used car from Waldorf Ford and that greedy place ripped me a $200 spare key. Dealers have more often than not detracted from the sale - I should get a discount for having to suffer them. Admittedly this is less likely to happen with a new car. And certainly there are some exceptional salesman who do know their stuff and their product, but they're uncommon in my experience.

I have to laugh at the dealers mentioned in this forum that don't even know how to use the system Ford gave them to look up product and order, price, and sell it. What a shame! I see a few that seem to know their stuff and post in this forum to their credit, and I hope I can hook up with one of them when it comes time to buy my car next year - assuming they can get me a GT350 at MSRP. Otherwise I'm buying a C7 cause next year is the time for me. </rant....:frusty:>

 

[Cruzinaround]

Who said they are "hedging their bets?" That would entail the notion of a risk. There is zero risk here as, as others have pointed out in their own experiences, people are offering ADM and above to get a spot all day long.

A page or 2 back a dealer out of state offered $35k OVER ADM for an "R" That's far from a bet, that dealer to dealer sale will make many many cars worth of profit off of that 1 sale, above what they make at MSRP as ADM is 100% pure profit. $35k pure profit is selling, what, even if they pay 6% commission, like 10-15 normal priced other cars on the lot plus the normal profit up to the MSRP on it? That's a pretty good day work.

No one is hedging anything, there are actual high above ADM offers being currently made. It's just unfortunate people have an entitlement complex but dont want to pay the price of admission to play the game and think Ford owes it to them somehow.

You're right referring to this car. My example was referencing the business of selling cars as a whole. They don't make their annual salaries and cover all their capital expenditures with the sale of a specialty car with a gross inflated ADM tacked on it. I'd say that as far as this or any specialty car is concerned they are making a calculated play. No risk involved UNLESS the item in question does not sell. In other words...they don't learn from the mistakes made with all the GT500's, Boss302's and the Z28's that wound up sitting on lots and still waiting for buyers. My hope is that they do make the same mistakes.

 

[Cruzinaround]

Sigh. Its not capitalism. It's not a fair "fight" when you've bribed the referee to change the rules just for you, which is exactly what car dealerships did when they lobbied government to make it illegal for manufacturers to sell direct to consumers. What's hilarious is that it wasn't even their own dealer, but rather a new one, Tesla. How does Tesla selling direct affect a Ford/GM/Toyota/Honda dealer?

It doesn't, other than set the precedence for Ford/GM/Toyota/Honda to follow suit and do the same. THAT is what the dealers were afraid of, that they would no longer be able to price gouge and charge above MSRP on the foolish or the impulsive. They were afraid of competition, so they made their competition illegal. You can buy just about anything direct from the manufacturer, other than cars. Capitalism my ass.

Finally ...someone gets it.

CapitalISM is not a set in stone rule. It is a concept that evolves as our culture does. The framework is the same. BUT....

ONLY in the automotive industry with the antiquated selling model in place does the practice of ADM's occur. Its the only area of business where the manufacturer MSRP is seldom if ever honored by the store you are buying their product from. And where the middleman sets a subjective price on specialty cars they don't outright own.

You'll hear that the dealerships often take a hit on losses due to selling below MSRP, or even below invoice. But that's a total load of crap. The dealer invoice isn't usually what they pay either. If they can move guaranteed volume annually then their costs are less per unit. If they meet projected margins based on volume they are extended additional rebates. If they sit on items too long they can still flip some of the inventory to the lease or rental fleet and recoup losses. Then they can still flip those once again into their used car segment for a much higher profit margin SEE HOW THAT WORKS. Then there's the end of model year blow outs that pull more manufacturer incentives etc etc. That these dealers don't necessarily extend to their buyers. And lets not count out the dealers with a service center attached to them....more residuals for service and parts and maintenance on the cars they do sell new or used..

Really...dealers crying they make no money??? The Average GM pulls in 150k+ in this country. That's a good living in any demographic. If their salespeople don't make that much or more even based on the commission potential, then they're usually fired. So this one car ALONE does not make or break a dealership.

 

[FPCV8YO]

Now that's not completely true. There are many businesses with moral owners who understand the intrinsic value of a product i.e. what it cost to produce such as the invoice price of the gt350, and then add the cost of providing them their overhead , capitalization, and other business costs as well as what profit gives them a reasonable income to afford food, shelter, education, healthcare, retirement, etc. That is not millions of dollars nor is it ridiculous ADM's. Capitalism without a moral component is a failure. Not to be too political but isn't it interesting to see the ADM's from the left coast where supposedly everybody cares about their neighbor and the small town midwest where they really do.

I have no idea where you got that notion about the left coast.

 

[Cruzinaround]

I would definately jump to another brand before paying 10k, 15k or 20k over MSRP.

The BEAN counters at all companies do not like to hear things like this. And if they had more control over the dealerships that do alienate their target audience there would be an entire dealership fired.

That is if Ford owned their dealerships.


They should monitor such actions and cut allocations of all models the following year to dealerships that do pull this crap and lose potential customers.

 

[thackl]

I found a small dealer located on my route to Austin. They may sell to me for MSRP. There will be no ADM, it just depends on if one of there other customers wants it or not. The salesman used to work in a larger market and told me a story about one of his past buyers who paid a 20k ADM on the GT500 when it first came out and how sorry he felt for the guy and year later and how pissed the guy was when the gt500 ended up not being limited production. The ADM is a losing proposition long term. I bet most of these 'gotta have it now' folks are going to be very upset when their 60k mustang that cost them 75k is only worth 45-50k a year or 2 later...

 

[5.0 435]

What about the 2008 Shelby GT500KR that sold for over $80k and some people paid $95K. Now they can be had for under $45k with a time bomb flywheel unless it was replaced.

 

[Cruzinaround]

I have no idea where you got that notion about the left coast.

What I don't get is where on the left coast do you go to get the proper octane fuel???

An engine doesn't "get used to" high octane fuel, and develop a requirement for it. However, regularly running low octane fuel in an engine designed for high performance will eventually wear on the engine and degrade longevity.

Maybe driving down the block won't have an effect, but highway mileage and long drives.....

I would not want to see one of these cars in the resale market come to the right coast. It might look like the car you wanted...but odds are it's had some time with low octane fuel in a hot climate experiencing rough idle, pinging and detonation.

 

[5.0 435]

One thing I've learned about forums is 50% of the information is BS or bad information. Get your facts from the manual that came with the car on what octane is required.

 

[Cruzinaround]

^Its a high compression performance oriented engine. There is a gas guzzler tax on it and it's "r" variant uses the same exact motor. It would be safe to say.... high octane is the preferred level this car is being tested with. Anything less should expect a degraded performance level. Along with the lingering effects of low octane in a high compression motor due to detonation...especially in a warmer climate during all 4 seasons.

 

[10splaya22]

^Its a high compression performance oriented engine. There is a gas guzzler tax on it and it's "r" variant uses the same exact motor. It would be safe to say.... high octane is the preferred level this car is being tested with. Anything less should expect a degraded performance level. Along with the lingering effects of low octane in a high compression motor due to detonation...especially in a warmer climate during all 4 seasons.

But you are wrong. You may not get the highest level or performance as you would with 93 but 91 is completely safe in this engine. I guarantee the engine has been run with all levels of octane from 87-93 to test the ECU and make sure it can adjust properly. Modern cars have such advanced ECU that they can detect knock or detonation and back off timing as required so no damage is done. The ECU is constantly adjusting based on fuel, atmospheric conditions, octane, etc.

I don't know where you get your "facts" from but you need to do some more research.

EDIT: The Skyactiv engines in the newer Mazda 3 and 6 have compression ratios of 13:1 and can use 87 octane.

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