Camaro Watch: Revealed Early

[SVTFreak]

Anyone with sense can see what Ford did. They knew they would never sell as many EBs if they gave the Mustang V6 a premium trim. That is why the V6 was de-tuned, stripped of features...to force people into the EB. Ford did this purposefully so they could sell more EBs to make their CAFE credits/sell #s.

Actually this is not true. Ford originally stated the v6 would be gone for 15. Under pressure from fleet department and rental car agencies did they decide to keep it for a while longer. Because of the target, there was no need to make it a premium model. Here was even talk of not offering it to the general public.

I agree the path doesn't best suit their target future, but the path they chose still leads to no more
V6 in the future. My thought is the first refresh will drop the v6 after the EB is trusted more by fleet sales.

Ford target in 5 more years is 90% of their sales will be small displacement turbo charged motors to meet cafe. The main holdout in their line is the mustang GT.

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[imjuslazy]

Man that instrument cluster and infotainment system is just on another level. Having the navigation in the driving cluster is really nice. 8 speed with the magnetic ride is going to be a tough combo to beat.

 

[thePill]

The only benefit the Camaro brings to the Mustangs segment is increased output and maybe a more competitive weight.

The Mustang needs to continue to aim upmarket as it has. This new Camaro is little more than a side-step from the 5th Gen. Although the wheelbase is improved, it's still not a seriously competitive track ratio in the front and barely in the rear. The Mustang will need to focus on a shorter WB next Gen, down to something more Corvette or smaller. The S550 is pushing the boundaries of mass and package restrictions now. A reduction would be small if any next Gen.

The Mustang also needs to keep the platform specific advantage. There is nothing advantageous about using a borrowed structure and making extreme changes to that. If only 30% is shared, why not just do it from scratch... Unless that's just a bullsh!t number.

Has Chevy even confirmed that it IS an ATS platform and not a shorten CTS?

Has anyone considered the work it would take to increase the WB, Track, Width and Length of an ATS? Over the ease of shortening the WB and Length on the CTS, leaving the Width and Track along?

Anybody???

 

[imjuslazy]

The only benefit the Camaro brings to the Mustangs segment is increased output and maybe a more competitive weight.

The Mustang needs to continue to aim upmarket as it has. This new Camaro is little more than a side-step from the 5th Gen. Although the wheelbase is improved, it's still not a seriously competitive track ratio in the front and barely in the rear. The Mustang will need to focus on a shorter WB next Gen, down to something more Corvette or smaller. The S550 is pushing the boundaries of mass and package restrictions now. A reduction would be small if any next Gen.

The Mustang also needs to keep the platform specific advantage. There is nothing advantageous about using a borrowed structure and making extreme changes to that. If only 30% is shared, why not just do it from scratch... Unless that's just a bullsh!t number.

Has Chevy even confirmed that it IS an ATS platform and not a shorten CTS?

Has anyone considered the work it would take to increase the WB, Track, Width and Length of an ATS? Over the ease of shortening the WB and Length on the CTS, leaving the Width and Track along?

Anybody???

It's on the alpha plus platform where as the ATS is on the Alpha platform I believe. They need to incorporate the GT350s front fascia into the regular models, as it swoops downward and allows for better visibility.

 

[15Pony]

Ford target in 5 more years is 90% of their sales will be small displacement turbo charged motors to meet cafe. The main holdout in their line is the mustang GT.

I guess we can thank Ford's aggressive truck sales for that. All those trucks skew the CAFE averages downward so to make up for it they have to squeeze more out of the car lines. Most Ford dealers I see are a sea of trucks.

 

[Spartan]

Actually this is not true. Ford originally stated the v6 would be gone for 15. Under pressure from fleet department and rental car agencies did they decide to keep it for a while longer. Because of the target, there was no need to make it a premium model. Here was even talk of not offering it to the general public.

I agree the path doesn't best suit their target future, but the path they chose still leads to no more
V6 in the future. My thought is the first refresh will drop the v6 after the EB is trusted more by fleet sales.

Ford target in 5 more years is 90% of their sales will be small displacement turbo charged motors to meet cafe. The main holdout in their line is the mustang GT.

I know why they kept the V6 for rentals and the entry price point.

But the difference between a V6 and EB base is nothing in price...so the whole entry point reasoning holds no water. As soon as they put the V6 in the consumer line up, it should have been offered with a premium trim option.

They knew they couldn't offer premium in the V6 because it would take away from EB sales and their CAFE #s.

We'll see if Ford changes their minds about the V6. If the Camaro outsells the mid range segment with the V6, then Ford is going to have to counter.

Chevy knows what they are doing here offering that V6 as the mid model and offering all their models access to all the goodies minus two of them.

 

[Spartan]

Camaro 6th Gen Dealer Guide...lots of pictures/information. Hate to say it, but it looks A LOT better in the guide.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=594090#post594090

 

[EXP Jawa]

And there is a large segment that doesn't believe a 4 cylinder belongs in the Mustang or Camaro. You can deny it all you want. That group is out there and that's what they believe.

Sure, they exist. FWIW, there are also people out there that believe the earth is flat. That alone doesn't lend credibility to the belief. People are free to believe what they want, so fine. But that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that a four-cylinder engine has no place in the Mustang lineup. Obviously, those people can't argue it from a historic point of view, Mustang offered 4-cylinder for 40% of its 50 year span. I'm sure that if a suitable 4-cylinder was available in 1965, it would've been used instead of the I-6. Those same people often further believe that anything short of a V8 is also wrong, but Ford can't build a business case on GTs alone.

At the end of the day, we know that Ford wants to move away from V6 to I4T for fleet reasons, and I know I was in a meeting somewhere around 2012 where it was stated that the S550 would offer 2.3T & 5.0L, the V6 was gone. But I guess we'll see where the market goes. If the customers demand a premium V6 and well-equipped V6 sales dominate Camaro sales, they will take notice...

 

[Spartan]

Sure, they exist. FWIW, there are also people out there that believe the earth is flat. That alone doesn't lend credibility to the belief. People are free to believe what they want, so fine. But that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that a four-cylinder engine has no place in the Mustang lineup. Obviously, those people can't argue it from a historic point of view, Mustang offered 4-cylinder for 40% of its 50 year span. I'm sure that if a suitable 4-cylinder was available in 1965, it would've been used instead of the I-6. Those same people often further believe that anything short of a V8 is also wrong, but Ford can't build a business case on GTs alone.

At the end of the day, we know that Ford wants to move away from V6 to I4T for fleet reasons, and I know I was in a meeting somewhere around 2012 where it was stated that the S550 would offer 2.3T & 5.0L, the V6 was gone. But I guess we'll see where the market goes. If the customers demand a premium V6 and well-equipped V6 sales dominate Camaro sales, they will take notice...

We obviously know the history of the 4 cylinder in the Mustang and know Fords wishes to phase the V6 out.

But Chevy went another route and I believe they are going to win the mid range buyer..the buyer that wants good HP and MPG while having a decent sounding exhaust/engine.

I'm one of those that wanted a Premium V6 in the Mustang. If the Camaro was somewhat better looking, I'd be swapping over to it since they're offering the V6 with all the bells and whistles pretty much.

 

[EXP Jawa]

Obviously. I guess we'll see how it plays out...

 

[Falc'man]

Ford want you to get used to the idea of Ecoboost because eventually there will not be space for non f.I. motors. Chevrolet will adopt this idea as well when they realise it is no longer feasible to invest in n.a. technology. Downspeeding is the future.

This may not hurt Chev now but in the long term Ford's Ecoboost branding and popularity will be ahead of Chev's... "Ecoboost".

As for the sixth gen Camaro, the problem for Chevrolet was how do you improve on one of the best balanced designs in contemporary times? The proportions of the current gen in the minds of many, including mine, are stunning. Not easy to make a considerable change without going backwards.

 

[ForTehNguyen]

downspeeding is purely due to govt regulations on mpg and emissions. There wasnt any revolution with turbo technology. Buy a V8 while you still can

 

[Spartan]

Ford want you to get used to the idea of Ecoboost because eventually there will not be space for non f.I. motors. Chevrolet will adopt this idea as well when they realise it is no longer feasible to invest in n.a. technology. Downspeeding is the future.

This may not hurt Chev now but in the long term Ford's Ecoboost branding and popularity will be ahead of Chev's... "Ecoboost".

As for the sixth gen Camaro, the problem for Chevrolet was how do you improve on one of the best balanced designs in contemporary times? The proportions of the current gen in the minds of many, including mine, are stunning. Not easy to make a considerable change without going backwards.

They did it by not changing the design much at all (they should have done a better job on the back end though).

They did it with the weight, tech, improved V6/V8 and options....Ford dropped the ball with a lot of those and is now going to have to wait a whole year to respond since they put the '16s out before even the '16 Camaro will come out.

 

[Falc'man]

They did it by not changing the design much at all (they should have done a better job on the back end though).

They did it with the weight, tech, improved V6/V8 and options....Ford dropped the ball with a lot of those and is now going to have to wait a whole year to respond since they put the '16s out before even the '16 Camaro will come out.

Not doubting it's a much better car than Zeta Camaro, and potentially S550 as well, I was just talking about the looks. In isolation it looks great so my comments were aimed at those, including myself, who thought the design was a backwards step or lacked something.

I don't think Ford dropped the ball; it's how the industry is, it's progressive. The Mustang was going to improve either way, but the harder the Camaro hits the harder Ford want to hit back. That's a good thing isn't it? And let's face it, Chevrolet weren't going to come up with a half-baked sixth Gen were they. Competition improves the breed.

When the weight of this Gen is revealed we'll know from that, as well as the car's agility, that the GT will face a tough period before direct injection is used, and when it is look out for fireworks.

 

[Falc'man]

downspeeding is purely due to govt regulations on mpg and emissions. There wasnt any revolution with turbo technology. Buy a V8 while you still can

Yeah correct. Added bonus of power at all revs. To some that's boring but against the clock it's nearly always the winner.

I'm sure Ford made it clear the GT will always be a V8.

The competition will dictate what happens in the long term. Ford can't dictate this when the competition is there to keep them honest. If, for example, the Camaro V6 clearly outsells the Ecoboost 2.3 then Ford need to rethink their strategy, and perhaps get rid of the 3.7 for maybe the 2.7 V6 Ecoboost. By then one would hope the 5.0's improvements would have enough buffer to distance itself from the 2.7, power wise.

All three makers, will all find a way to keep the V8 for as long as they can. I can't see any of them being the first to blink.

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