GT350 vs. Z/28

[02gtnh]

Refer to my post below...



The attention the Camaro receives in Racing is unmatched in all of Motorsport... Well, the KIA is starting to push it...

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[02gtnh]

My argument above is pretty sound, I believe that is why you keep tumbling down an endless Rabbit hole.

Do you think Hot Rod brought this up in the Al O. interview on their own discovery? Nope...

Actually, I think he has made you look silly. He backed all his words, you just keep repeating the same thing with no proof behind it.

 

[thePill]

Over your head?

How can that be? It is pretty laid out and fairly easy to comprehend. 7 liters is larger than 5 or 4 liters.

500-600lbs weight reduction is larger than 200-300lbs weight reduction.

The GT350 is required in the class now that a 7 liter z28 is Camaro answer to a 4 liter M3 and a 5 liter Boss 302.

Actually, I think he has made you look silly. He backed all his words, you just keep repeating the same thing with no proof behind it.

Look silly how? welding a tube chassis onto an OEM front section? Or not understanding leverage?

The 7 liter engine produces more power than every other car in the class AND they were not penalized for it in weight.

This is basically denial. You guys are trying to convince me an LS7 is just as powerful as the Coyote and M3.

That is stupid...

I have provided links to everything available, what proof do you need? He isn't supplying any proof, just assumptions.

 

[Stuntman]

Look silly how? welding a tube chassis onto an OEM front section? Or not understanding leverage?

The 7 liter engine produces more power than every other car in the class AND they were not penalized for it in weight.

This is basically denial. You guys are trying to convince me an LS7 is just as powerful as the Coyote and M3.

That is stupid...

You make yourself look ignorant AGAIN by lying and twisting my words around. Well I can't blame you if you truly have a limited mechanical understanding which I constantly prove.

For the 100th time. Its a carbon TUB support structure. NOT a TUBE frame, that mounts the transaxle in an S197... Its pretty sad you dont know the difference, but again I can't blame you if you think indycars have "roll cages" when they have carbon monocoques with a roll hoop.

You again lie by saying I dont understand leverage when I proved the tire pressures effect on a mustangs front-rear weight distribution (0.014%) when YOU claim a 2-3% change.

You really have no clue man...

 

[Taneras]

You guys are trying to convince me an LS7 is just as powerful as the Coyote and M3.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think they are trying to say that the restricted LS7 is about as powerful as a modified Coyote and M3.

 

[Stuntman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think they are trying to say that the restricted LS7 is about as powerful as a modified Coyote and M3.

If you watch the CTSCC. It probably has more. Would I say that if I liked and was trying to defend camaro racing?

 

[thePill]

You make yourself look ignorant AGAIN by lying and twisting my words around. Well I can't blame you if you truly have a limited mechanical understanding which I constantly prove.

You again lie by saying I dont understand leverage when I proved the tire pressures effect on a mustangs front-rear weight distribution (0.014%) when YOU claim a 2-3% change.

You really have no clue man...

Okay, enough, you made a mistake, it happens.

Back to the power advantage here...

If the Z/28.R was said to make 470HP at an 80mm restriction, the engine would be producing well over 505HP. There is no way it is only losing 35HP to the wheels.

A simple search of Google Images (Boss 302 Dyno) will show you 100's of Dyno sheets where the Boss dyno's from 370 to 390HP, there are a handful below 370 and a handful above 395 but, thats 50HP in the best case scenario. It isn't hard to believe a Boss 302R (using a factory Boss 302 provided by Ford) running 100 isn't over 405HP. It's on the IMSA website and rules man. The Boss 302S is in a 300-400HP GTS class so, not hard to believe.

That is just one issue though.. the restrictions on the Boss 302 stayed in place for a portion of the z28's first season and the Camaro was allowed the same race weight as the M3 and Boss 302.

Are you guys not seeing this? What is your dispute about? I'm not following your argument here...

You proved the Boss 302 had it's restricitons removed half way through the 2014 season. Instead of a 100-120RWHP advantage at the same weight, IMSA allowed the Boss to come within 50-60RWHP...

The next race at Laguna will be the FIRST race these two cars have been this close together...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think they are trying to say that the restricted LS7 is about as powerful as a modified Coyote and M3.

Yes, I think that is what they are trying to say. The LS7 at a 65mm restriction should be at or around 420-430rwhp STOCK, but, these race engines have a little more. As we seen, the PWC car makes 425rwhp with a 43mm restrictor AND, that should be the same engine I hope. That makes a 470rwhp figure at 80mm sound accurate, I believe it was provided to Camaro5 by Matt Bell himself according to the thread over there. So, I think a 65mm restriction should bring the Z/28.R down to 440-460rwhp.

The unrestricted Boss 302 shouldn't be any more than 460hp at the crank, I have a hard time believing that the Boss 302 Crate engine provided by Ford Racing (and nearly the same as the OEM version) is making any more than that. Parasitic losses in an S197 was usually between 50-60hp so, it should be around 400rwhp on the roller. A 500hp Boss 302 would be required to match an LS7 but still, it would never match it's power curve... It's more than just a peak advantage.

Needless to say, the Boss 302 had a 57mm restriction on until May 2014, nearly half the season was run by then. Even still, the Camaro enjoyed a power advantage with no weight penalty.

If this argument makes me look silly, let me know...

 

[Stuntman]

Okay, enough, you made a mistake, it happens.[/B]

Its funny how you handle defeat... Yet you will make the same lies and claims within 12-24 hours. Maybe its not funny and you actually do have a real problem...

 

[thePill]

Its funny how you handle defeat... Yet you will make the same lies and claims within 12-24 hours. Maybe its not funny and you actually do have a real problem...

Stop dancing around the debate, the z28 should have been in GT at that output and race weight. Period...

The PWC z28 is the most pathetic manipulation of rules in order to make this thing competitive. Bet you any money they restrict Dean's Boss before he sweeps the class... Bet me...

...and, we are headed into Laguna Seca in a few days. The z28 is now heavier and more restricted than ever before. The Boss typically does well there and the 5th Gen Camaro does not. Elevation changes are bad for heavy cars.

 

[Stuntman]

...and, we are headed into Laguna Seca in a few days. The z28 is now heavier and more restricted than ever before. The Boss typically does well there and the 5th Gen Camaro does not. Elevation changes are bad for heavy cars.

Are you kidding me? When was the last podium for a Mustang in CTSCC at Laguna?

FYI a camaro finished on the podium every year since 2011, and winning in 2011 & 2012 in the "crappy" SS. You continue to prove almost every post you have no idea what you're talking about. :headbonk:

 

[thePill]

Are you kidding me? When was the last podium for a Mustang in CTSCC at Laguna?

FYI a camaro finished on the podium every year since 2011, and winning in 2011 & 2012 in the "crappy" SS. You continue to prove almost every post you have no idea what you're talking about. :headbonk:

The Boss does well at Laguna Seca, the z28 does well because LS7 and no race weight penalty. Finally that has changed. Is "Doing well" mean winning or dominating? I think your being a selective little girl now.

So I see it you are done talking about the LS7 and Boss 302 outputs. Good to know I shut you up.

Edit: No, the z28 does well because rulebook. Another reason I could give two sh!ts about Pro at the moment or since 2012. Might as well watch Nascar, it's on more.

And NO, the 5th Gen Camaro z28 did not do as well as I thought it would with Randy driving. It is a track that punishes higher curb weight. The GT500 wasn't too far behind it. Elevation changes are more difficult on heavier cars, that is not a secret. Nurburgring is one track that comes to mind.

Wait, let me guess, Chevy forgot to give Motor Trend a piece of the car when Randy tested it? Whoops...

 

[thePill]

2015 Model Year GT350 in danger of not making it. They need to push this so they can get a half a season on the track in traffic.

Following the troupe and running the circut during private sessions is great BUT, running the actual race would be even more beneficial.

I wish IMSA would just give in a make an exception for a special development season. Grand Am did it in 2010, just let Ford run a sandbag season for development.

They won't win a Championship or Race, just let them run!!!!

 

[Sabre]

2015 Model Year GT350 in danger of not making it. They need to push this so they can get a half a season on the track in traffic.

Following the troupe and running the circut during private sessions is great BUT, running the actual race would be even more beneficial.

I wish IMSA would just give in a make an exception for a special development season. Grand Am did it in 2010, just let Ford run a sandbag season for development.

They won't win a Championship or Race, just let them run!!!!

Ridiculous!

Ford and Multimatic aren't going to put a car in a racing series to do "development" or to satisfy your need to see it on a track. They won't release the car until they are satisfied that it's ready to race. They (Billy & Scott) know how the car needs to feel and perform, before it's ready to face competition. It will be thoroughly vetted and ready before it ever makes it's debut. There is waay to much invested to simply ride around "developing" the car. It won't go until it's ready.

 

[thePill]

Ridiculous!

Ford and Multimatic aren't going to put a car in a racing series to do "development" or to satisfy your need to see it on a track. They won't release the car until they are satisfied that it's ready to race. They (Billy & Scott) know how the car needs to feel and perform, before it's ready to face competition. It will be thoroughly vetted and ready before it ever makes it's debut. There is waay to much invested to simply ride around "developing" the car. It won't go until it's ready.

The Boss was developed during the most of the season in 2010. Grand Am allowed them to run a Boss 302 configuration while the Coyote debuted. There is valuable information to gain during a developement season.

2014 was the z28's developement season BUT, they kinda did it backwards. The Z/28.R should have run in 2013 for 2014. Then the z28 should have been homologated from that.

It's not merely satisfying a need to see the car, I feel it would be a better product. Right now they are just following the series and are testing during private sessions, which is great but they could also be in there banging fenders.

No need to be a p@ssy about it... get it out there...

 

[Erik427]

So what's going to happen when the GT350 comes out and is also allowed to race the same class?

It will be saddled with major weight and restricted to about 400hp if not more. Nascar does not want Ford to dominate. The chevy will receive major rule concessions. Nascar and chevy always does this.........:ford:

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