GT350 vs. Z/28

[Erik427]

Something new. A V-6 version of the GT 350. Wonder what something like that would be called?

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[thePill]

Something new. A V-6 version of the GT 350. Wonder what something like that would be called?

A GT Three Five, a spawn of the 350.

The GT Five Oh would of course mirror the GT500.

It's all in the extra zero.

I'm thinking just an EB 3.5 would get them close to 420hp as the GT moves closer to 500.

 

[Erik427]

I see the 6 gen camaro getting a TT V-6. Ford needs to counter that move.

 

[thePill]

I see the 6 gen camaro getting a TT V-6. Ford needs to counter that move.

Just got word that the Alpha Short was almost 150lbs lighter than the Zeta. This needs more confirmation but it's a decent number.

This is also assumed to be the BIW only, no suspension or support panels.

I have no idea how much heavier the ATS-V's BIW was over the base Alpha Short. I also have no idea how much weight was gained from widening and maybe lengthening the 6th Gen.

I was told they could drop 75lbs every inch they reduced the wheelbase by. I'm not sure that is even remotely true.

3905 minus that 150 is 3745lbs. That would be monumental in this day and age.

...They are still pretty adamant that there is weight gain in every major component area. That 150lbs won't last long when standard equipment is so heavy now.



The C7 lost 99lbs in the BIW but ended up gaining 190lbs overall. The C7 switched to an all aluminum space frame and increase wheelbase and track.

According to Chevy, the C7 lost 99lbs in the frame and 37lbs in panels (150lbs overall). It went on to gain over 210lbs in content.

I am willing to bet the 6th Gen lost an additional 50-60lbs in panels along with the 150lbs.

The huge issue is the content weight. Even if they remove 200lbs from the structure, all that Corvette's 210lbs will be present on the Camaro. That gain will likely be a bit more due to heavier equipment.

All said and done, it could end up being 3900lbs again. Which would be pretty good considering it's a parts bin car.

 

[thePill]

Here it is!!! What my better half has been waiting for. Grabber Blue!!!

Please offer it.

 

[traxiii]

HOMEWORK:

Some things to think about, the GT350's lower hood line may not allow any top loaded supercharging. However, the GT's does support a supercharger. Maybe the reason the hood is higher on the GT is not only because of Euro ped standards, it may have also been a supercharger support function until the Ecoboost is ready.

The higher hood line makes even more sense at this point in the Gen. These are the soft years anyway, it is suppose to start out with the "Classic" look and evolve. Once the Ecoboost is ready (Direct Injection is needed) then the lower hood line will be incorporated in. I think active hood may need to be in place as well. Maybe not though... we never know...

I assume you are talking about an Ecoboosted Coyote?

 

[thePill]

I assume you are talking about an Ecoboosted Coyote?

Yes sir, I imagine the Coyote has been put through the R&D gauntlet. For some reason and unknown to me, Ford has decided to hold on to that card.

Direct injection is a requirement for the Ecoboost package on any engine. When this will happen is also difficult to judge from here. Although, we can speculate and come up with some logical discussion.

I'd say Ford is waiting for the Camaro before playing any serious cards. My intuition says the Mustang will be refreshed for MY2018. This of course depends on sales too. I just don't see FoMoCo forcing out a refreshed 2017 with the current sales numbers where they are. There may even be a 2019, hell... a refresh isn't even in stone.

In my scenario, the GT500 will return in MY17. Depending on the situation, the GT500 could continue using a GT based front section before the the refresh. I feel it would help keep the MSRP down initially.

By using the GT's hood, it will allow Ford to use a roots type supercharger for MY17. Ford has done R&D on a Roots Coyote, at least the catalog FR systems. This of course has no direct injection as of now. I'm thinking the '17 GT500 would have 650-700hp. Another bonus is the extreme weight difference between the Trinity/TR6060 and Coyote/TR3165. The Coyote is a 429llbs engine using a 112lbs for the one off Tremec.

The GT500's Trinity weighed nearly 500lbs without the supercharger. The heavy duty TR6060 was 170lbs. My math leads me to roughly 120lbs lost in drivetrain weight. That is a good thing... However, I doubt that savings will hang around because I am expecting some major equipment upgrades.

Johnny McBride had an awesome design before the S550 was made public. If a GT350 front section is used, Johnny's hood would accommodate a SC 5.0 or a hood very similar. A forward heat extractor with cowl induction.

Initially, the GT500 would be impressive but, I feel it is merely a filler until the TT 5.0 is ready. A nearly 700hp GT500 at 3900lbs is a powerful package.


I am looking for a render Chaz did a while back when the car was shown.... There is a design element in the grill that replaces the GT's fangs. It was nicknamed "The Superman".

I feel the superman would be a proper setup for an FI car. It also calls up some "13-'14 nostalgia. If I can find the picture I will post it here.

What if the GT500 offered two different FI engines. I'd say offer a handful of 600+hp TT3.5 and maybe help save some weight. Then offer the Big-un... the TT 5.0. Kind of a fantasy stretch but, offering two versions is definitely King or the Road.


Anywho... back to the GT350...

 

[w3rkn]

Something new. A V-6 version of the GT 350. Wonder what something like that would be called?

Mustang GTS ..?

 

[minjitta]

They went a TT V6 in the upcoming Ford GT's, so yea I could eventually see a halo version of a Mustang having something like that.

Camaro 6g also going with TT v6

 

[Erik427]

Mustang GTS ..?

Nice pick....did not think of that one.

 

[mustangletback]

:cheers::lol::ford:I think no v6 in the GT500!!what should have happened was something like this,motor wise.
1.turbo v6 with 425hp
2.mustang gt 510hp
3.GT350,600hp
4.GT500 750-800hp.

 

[thePill]

Nurburgring....

I don't understand why this is such a bargaining chip these days. Like ever year before it, testing has begun and new times are being thrown around. Now these times are being cherished again now that winter is over. I'm not sure if the GT350 is back there or another Mustang but a couple of the local clubs are bringing up the value of said car.

First, I am not sure where the 7:32 came from. More than one source says it was from a Ford rep at the show. I usually wouldn't believe that but, it appears that the Power to Weight ratio and track measurements (among some other things) were released a little early. Before I go on, I don't even know if any of those rumors are even true. Would I be bringing them up if I didn't? Probably not... I guess a glimmer of want and disbelief is present too so.

If a Ford rep let it slip then it will be hard to dispute.

However, a few club guys are saying that the time was obtained using the primitive timing method used by a group of observers. For example, they timed the 2013 GT500 prototype from 7:30 to 7:40 (I witnessed times close to those) and Ford slipped a 7.39. So, it isn't accurate in this respect. Yes, it gives you an idea but, not accurate even if it was a complete OEM offering (which it probably is not).

The time is very precise which usually isn't done when using this method so... Could be a combination of a slip to back up their observations just as SVT's video of a 7:39 kinda backed up mine.

Try not to get caught up in this... It is fun but thats where it ends...

 

[thePill]

This is pretty much all good news... Except for the weight. Remember, the PtW was slipped to be exactly what the previous 911 GT3 had at 6.63 (I need to check that number again). Worth noting, if that is indeed true, the 911 GT3's 3153lbs is Unladen DIN Kurb and not the US Standard, just FYI.

This would mean the GT350R IS NOT a 3450lbs car.

[ame]

As you all know, the GT350 Mustang appeared at the Texas World Speedway this weekend. Thanks to M6G member Backorder who got us a slew of photos/videos and new details in this Q&A with Jim Owens, Ford's Shelby/Boss Brand Manager.

This 16min video is well worth the listen, with a lot of interesting and entertainment moments.



Some highlights:

• The Avalanche Gray GT350 at Texas World Speedway is the first technical trial (TT) build GT350 that has been shown, built with non-production tools.

• GT350 will be over 100HP/liter (making the 5.2L over 520 horsepowers) with a 8250 RPM redline.

• "We haven't divulged the model year yet and there is a reason for that."

• It will be available "earlier in the fourth quarter."

• There will be a GT350S race car that is covered by a contractual agreement between Ford and Shelby American.

• Q: Any truth to the track times floating on the internet? A: "It would be safe to say it would be somewhere between a Boss 302 number and the current GT500 production number and I wouldn’t be surprised if the R might be akin to [the difference between] the Boss 302 and Leguna Seca version."

• Pricing proposal is being submitted to the Group VP on April 2, 2015.

• It will be a "relative performance value... not saying it will be cheap" but "it will have things in the car that you can't get at any price" (i.e. 5.2L flat plane crank engine).

• Ford will market the vehicle by showcasing it running on world famous North American road courses. Possibly Leguna Seca, Road America, Watkins Glen, Sebring, Lime Rock, etc. "What made the Cobras famous was that it went to world class race facilities and beat everything it could."

• There may be a GT350 Mustang Track Attack program (see Boss Track Attack program).

• When they go on tour, the GT350 will be displayed flipped on its side with clear plastic belly pans with arrows to show the airflow to showcase the entire air management system and the strides it made to reduce drag coefficient and increase downforce.

• Tech pack includes: heated/cooled seats, 8.5" screen, Sync 3 and other creature comforts while getting the same brakes, MagneRide, same calibration, same horsepower.

• Track pack includes: smaller screen, Recaro seats, bigger functional wing.

No model year finalization yet!!! Meaning a possible 2015 GT350 limited run... Very, very valuable in my opinion.

there WILL BE a GT350S. I said this a LOOOOOONG time ago that one would be needed to cover every class the Boss left behind. This is apparently a Ford/Shelby collaboration though. Shelby did great work on the 2011-2012 SCCA GT350's that were NA. I like this idea and it alleviates some headache and gives SAI some work.

The GT350's performance falls between the GT500 and Boss 302. The R is speculated to have a large gap between the GT350 and itself.

They released more track names they extensively tested at. I knew Laguna and Sebring, the others are a treat too. The GT350R is just as fast at Laguna as the Boss 302.R was in Grand Am/CTSC GS (1.35-1.36). The GT350 readhed (LOL!! reached, not readhed) speeds of over 150mph at Sebring... These are rumors but I can see it happening...

Also, they bring up our discussion about the large 5.2 liter FPC and how awesome it is that they pulled it off. I know my topics seem to pre-game you guys for info releases...

That's because I am pre-gaming you for these "predetermined" topics.

 

[Sasuketr]

My fear is that the six gen 1le might give a good run for the gt350 for its money! If you look at the current 1le stats which is even faster around the track than a m4 or m3 the new gen 1le might be some fearless track warrior! Again i m all assuming this according to the motortrend laptimes for 1le, m4, m3 and lexus rcf! Lets hope i m wrong! Cause i can't imagine a car that good for $42,000 :(

 

[mustangletback]

My fear is that the six gen 1le might give a good run for the gt350 for its money! If you look at the current 1le stats which is even faster around the track than a m4 or m3 the new gen 1le might be some fearless track warrior! Again i m all assuming this according to the motortrend laptimes for 1le, m4, m3 and lexus rcf! Lets hope i m wrong! Cause i can't imagine a car that good for $42,000 :(

i dont think you have to worry.the next gen.CRAPMARO 1le wont even be near the GT350 in performance.if FORD lets a 1le beat or get close to the performance of the GT350,then we would have to wonder what in the hell was the FPC motor even created for.:cheers::lol:

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