GT350 vs. Z/28

[traxiii]

Where did you read this about the weight?

In LeftLane quotes Cadillac saying that the ATS undercuts its competitors with a curb weight as low as 3400 pounds for base models, Yet Autoblog has the ATS 3.6L AWD at 3629 and complains about the lack of rear seat and trunk space.

Now I understand the 2016 ATS is supposed to weigh less, but we'll see what all the extra updated safety equipment does, and add on a V8 or turbo V6.

I spent some time driving alongside a new ATS-V on the freeway and if the Camaro is going to be built on that chassis, it's going to be a pretty snug fit inside, that thing was small.

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[02gtnh]

In LeftLane quotes Cadillac saying that the ATS undercuts its competitors with a curb weight as low as 3400 pounds for base models, Yet Autoblog has the ATS 3.6L AWD at 3629 and complains about the lack of rear seat and trunk space.

Now I understand the 2016 ATS is supposed to weigh less, but we'll see what all the extra updated safety equipment does, and add on a V8 or turbo V6.

I spent some time driving alongside a new ATS-V on the freeway and if the Camaro is going to be built on that chassis, it's going to be a pretty snug fit inside, that thing was small.

But the base model ats has a curb of 3411, so what did Cadillac say that was wrong.

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-coupe/features-specs/dimensions.html

 

[thePill]

But the base model ats has a curb of 3411, so what did Cadillac say that was wrong.

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-coupe/features-specs/dimensions.html

Initially, the ATS-V was suppose to be 650lbs lighter than the CTS-V which weighed 4120lbs. This figure was reported as late as December 2014 by some media sources. However, Caddy has since withdrawn that prediction for a more modest "about 3700lbs" prediction...

I highly doubt we will see a sub-3800lbs 6th Gen just based on the mass gained from ATS to Camaro.

At this point, 3900lbs looks difficult...

 

[02gtnh]

Initially, the ATS-V was suppose to be 650lbs lighter than the CTS-V which weighed 4120lbs. This figure was reported as late as December 2014 by some media sources. However, Caddy has since withdrawn that prediction for a more modest "about 3700lbs" prediction...

I highly doubt we will see a sub-3800lbs 6th Gen just based on the mass gained from ATS to Camaro.

At this point, 3900lbs looks difficult...

I read all the articles and didn't see any saying the ATS-V was to be 650lbs lighter.

 

[thePill]

Did you read ALL the articles?

Because I have a feeling you missed some.

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ed-chassis-powertrain-design-and-more-feature

Information was gathered in November during the LA Show (slightly before), since then, Officials from Caddy have retracted that statement and have now gone with a more subtle 3700lbs.

Sometime in the last 4 months, the ATS-V has gone from 3500lbs to 3700lbs. They originally intended to compete with the M4 pound for pound. Sounds like they caught whatever the Mustang came down with. Stand by for a 3900lbs 6th Gen.

As of right now, even if you just replaced the Caddy badges with Camaro ones, the SS would weigh more than the S550. I think we all realize the 6th Gen is a tanker compared to the ATS.

 

[02gtnh]

Did you read ALL the articles?

Because I have a feeling you missed some.

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ed-chassis-powertrain-design-and-more-feature

Information was gathered in November during the LA Show (slightly before), since then, Officials from Caddy have retracted that statement and have now gone with a more subtle 3700lbs.

Sometime in the last 4 months, the ATS-V has gone from 3500lbs to 3700lbs. They originally intended to compete with the M4 pound for pound. Sounds like they caught whatever the Mustang came down with. Stand by for a 3900lbs 6th Gen.

As of right now, even if you just replaced the Caddy badges with Camaro ones, the SS would weigh more than the S550. I think we all realize the 6th Gen is a tanker compared to the ATS.

There's no GM quote there on weight, it just a mag article with miss-info. You trying to tell me mags don't make errors? If that was a quote, then yes GM is back peddling, but to take the word of a mag as what GM said to be fact is not very smart. There is no article where GM is making the claim this article wrote.

 

[thePill]

Wanna hear some sh!t?

Ford and GM have already measured c@cks at Nurburgring, they did this without our knowledge... This isn't the first time Ford tested the Mustang right in front of Chevy (GM), in June 2011, Ford openly ran the 2013 GT500 mule right in front of Team Corvette. That is correct... While Chevy felt confident in the ZL1's 7:41, they already witnessed the GT500 running exactly what I reported back then... a 7:30-7:40... but still claimed victory.

Fast forward to July 2014...


Ford openly ran the GT350 on the track along side the (3700lbs-ish) ATS-V. According to reports, the GT350 left the ATS-V behind. As in, No contest...

GM knows full well what the GT350 can do and Ford wasn't bashful. This GT350 vs. z28 contest doesn't look promising. Hopefully they can get some of the media in their pocket before the comparisons are done.

There's no GM quote there on weight, it just a mag article with miss-info. You trying to tell me mags don't make errors? If that was a quote, then yes GM is back peddling, but to take the word of a mag as what GM said to be fact is not very smart. There is no article where GM is making the claim this article wrote.

I am ready to discredit most media for bad information yet I am scrutinized for informed or educated speculation.

I would be on board with you here except Car and Driver are adamant that this was indeed the figure discussed prior to the show. That is the benefit of keeping your mouth shut, no need to do a public back peddle. This would be the same gain feared by Mustang owners. Something tells me (as well as the Mustang) that there is a more extensive weight loss program in store later on. The GT350 is already a kind of testament to that.

Another key issue is, what made up that extra 200lbs? Did the ATS-V really need to take on that much additional reinforcement to compensate for the power and performance? I can visually see the reinforcement they added above and in front of the torque boxes. I personally seen a bare ATS Alpha platform and I am gonna tell you, it is skimpy. No wonder the base car weighs 3400lbs...

I am still waiting to see how much mass was gained to fit the LT1 and drivetrain. Or the 19/20's instead of the 18/19's... The Camaro is just bigger...

 

[thePill]

Ford has been referring to both the GT500 AND, the GT500KR lately in "Historical" discussions. I have a feeling that there will be a:

GT500
GT500FPP

and, in 2018, the GT500KR.

I am calling for a Twin Turbo 5.0 Coyote. The TT 3.5 will have more Horsepower per Liter @ 171... Although, with those gains already witnessed and the tech cost is already falling, I want to see a BIG King of the Road.

I want 808hp in my GT500...

 

[9secondko]

Ford has been referring to both the GT500 AND, the GT500KR lately in "Historical" discussions. I have a feeling that there will be a:

GT500
GT500FPP

and, in 2018, the GT500KR.

I am calling for a Twin Turbo 5.0 Coyote. The TT 3.5 will have more Horsepower per Liter @ 171... Although, with those gains already witnessed and the tech cost is already falling, I want to see a BIG King of the Road.

I want 808hp in my GT500...

Been talking TT Coyote for a while now.

In fact, I believe its already been tested.

And it makes all the sense in the world...


Buh bye Camaro [insert HIPO model here]. And quite possibly showing taillights to Porsche, lambo, etc. But the Lambo being AWD would be quite the challenge.

Hmmm... TT GT500 RWD.

TT GT500KR AWD?...

Interesting... Well a fellow can dream, eh?

 

[thePill]

Been talking TT Coyote for a while now.

In fact, I believe its already been tested.

And it makes all the sense in the world...


Buh bye Camaro [insert HIPO model here]. And quite possibly showing taillights to Porsche, lambo, etc. But the Lambo being AWD would be quite the challenge.

Hmmm... TT GT500 RWD.

TT GT500KR AWD?...

Interesting... Well a fellow can dream, eh?

The issue with an 800+hp figure is, the Coyote needs DI.

NEEDS IT!!!

I think DI is coming in 2017. HP output will increase 25-35 over the entire V8 lineup. I think the LT1 gained 19lbs adding DI over the LS3. I need to find the Corvettes weight gain list again.

The National Corvette Museum is holding its Bash event this weekend to officially kick off the 2013 season as well as the 2014 Corvette C7, and one of the official details that was revealed yesterday (besides C7 pricing info) was that the 2014 C7 coupe without the Z51 package has an estimated curb weight of 3,298 pounds (1,496 kg) — or 90 pounds (41 kg) heavier than the 2013 C6 coupe’s 3,208-pound (1,455 kg) curb weight.

Here are the detailed mass reductions and additions to the C7. Keep in mind that these may not be all-inclusive:

Areas Of Mass Reduction

Frame: 99 pounds lighter
Body panels: 37 pounds lighter
Hatch: several pounds lighter
Control arms: now hollow, several pounds
Total weight savings is in the vicinity of 150 pounds, or 68 kg.

Areas of Mass Addition

35.2 pounds — direct injection, VVT, AFM
6.6 pounds — standard engine oil cooler
13.2 pounds — dual mass clutch
15.4 pounds — steel torque tube part of AFM
5.5 pounds — AFM exhaust valves
11 pounds — 7th transmission speed
18.5 pounds — strengthened differential, half shafts
18.3 pounds — larger fixed brakes
17 pounds — new interior appointments and safety features
17.2 pounds — upgraded seats
18.5 pounds — structural safety requirements
31.5 pounds — new infotainment and cabin technology, as well as relocating battery to the rear
3 pounds — bigger fuel tank
That’s a total weight gain of 210 pounds, or 95 kg.

Opting for the Z51 performance package would add transmission and differential coolers, a rear sway bar, larger wheels, electronic differential, and a spoiler. Although unconfirmed, these changes will most likely result in the addition of 150-200 pounds.

Well, it was with DI, VVT and AFM and it was 35lbs.

I think the VVT would be the heaviest.




Edit: Although the C7 initially lost 140lbs, it regained over 210lbs back on. I'm sure there is more to these numbers that would clarify the 90lbs gain. Or there is possibly lighter C7's out there.

I caution the 6th Gen weight loss hopefuls, the above component weight gain is also present in the 6th Gen. However, the 6th Gen will gain even more weight with far better standard equipment than the 5th Gen. The transmission is heavier, the IRS and MacP systems are heavier, MRC is heavier, brakes/wheels/tires are heavier.

 

[thePill]

Off topic for a second:

Before the craziness erupts here shortly, I need to throw some things out here.

First, I want to thank all the "informants" that send me my talking points. I am very grateful for the info/speculation I receive, admittedly, I don't have time to discuss everything I read. I have my own procedures when handling hearsay, mostly just to avoid the "Nah Ah's". Again, I am not ignoring you or the contents of your message. All that said, I need to mention some things before this speeds up.

1.) If you already have my contact info and a specific way you handle your leak, please continue with that course. Email or Facebook is preferred or, you can shoot me a PM here if you do not have my contact info. Please do not ask me about my contact info, the ones that have it either was given that info by me selectively or, went to lengths to find it themselves.

2.) If you currently work for said manufacturer, please DO NOT contact me here on Mustang6g... period... seek alternate methods please. I would also extend this to anyone currently employed in the industry, even down to assembly operators and are leaking (or speculating depending on who you really are). A majority of you feel that this is necessary in order to avoid repercussions and have practiced this method safely (so far).

3.) If you have something to say and think it is of value, please feel free to post that info yourself. If you are more comfortable using a Scapegoat then by all means, send it to me and I will attempt to verify and post it as soon as possible. If you just need someone to articulate the message, again, send it to me and I will get around to your leak ASAP. It wouldn't hurt anyone if there were others providing the conversation.

4.) The email's you send need to have a subject in the subject line box please. Limit the subject to about 30 letters. I check most of them on my phone and cannot see much beyond 30 letters. Also (and this is a big deal), please don't roll your hand across the keyboard to fill out the subject line. Most of those go to the Junk Box and I usually don't open them or, in some cases, didn't even know they were there.

5.) Telephone... I don't mind if you prefer to call instead of the traditional methods. I spend more time on the phone with these things anyway. If you have acquired my telephone number, please limit your call time from 9am to 11pm. No wee hours of the morning b$llsh!t please... I don't sleep but my family does... and I do not have a gamer tag nor would I want to play video games at complete random in the dead middle of nothingness... and please be sober-ish... Some of you text or use Messager, you can text or FBMessage me any time, no problem... No nudity please!!!


Sorry about the guidelines and I am sure most will just do what they want anyway. Regardless, many, many thanks to the speculators, spectators and spies for the many enjoyable hours of car speech.

Keep it coming!!!!

 

[Erik427]

Off topic for a second:

Before the craziness erupts here shortly, I need to throw some things out here.

First, I want to thank all the "informants" that send me my talking points. I am very grateful for the info/speculation I receive, admittedly, I don't have time to discuss everything I read. I have my own procedures when handling hearsay, mostly just to avoid the "Nah Ah's". Again, I am not ignoring you or the contents of your message. All that said, I need to mention some things before this speeds up.

1.) If you already have my contact info and a specific way you handle your leak, please continue with that course. Email or Facebook is preferred or, you can shoot me a PM here if you do not have my contact info. Please do not ask me about my contact info, the ones that have it either was given that info by me or, went to lengths to find it themselves.

2.) If you currently work for said manufacturer, please DO NOT contact me here on Mustang6g... period... seek alternate methods please. I would also extend this to anyone currently employed in the industry, even down to assembly operators and are leaking (or speculating depending on who you really are). A majority of you feel that this is necessary in order to avoid repercussions and have practiced this method safely (so far).

3.) If you have something to say and think it is of value, please feel free to post that info yourself. If you are more comfortable using a Scapegoat then by all means, send it to me and I will attempt to verify and post it as soon as possible. If you just need someone to articulate the message, again, send it to me and I will get around to your leak ASAP. It wouldn't hurt anyone if there were others providing the conversation.

4.) The email's you send need to have a subject in the subject line box please. Limit the subject to about 30 letters. I check most of them on my phone and cannot see much beyond 30 letters. Also (and this is a big deal), please don't roll your hand across the keyboard to fill out the subject line. Most of those go to the Junk Box and I usually don't open them or, in some cases, didn't even know they were there.

5.) Telephone... I don't mind if you prefer to call instead of the traditional methods. I spend more time on the phone with these things anyway. If you have acquired my telephone number, please limit your call time from 9am to 11pm. No wee hours of the morning b$llsh!t please... I don't sleep but my family does... and I do not have a gamer tag nor would I want to play video games at complete random in the dead middle of nothingness... and please be sober-ish... Some of you text or use Messager, you can text or FBMessage me any time, no problem... No nudity please!!!


Sorry about the guidelines and I am sure most will just do what they want anyway. Regardless, many, many thanks to the speculators, spectators and spies for the many enjoyable hours of car speech.

Keep it coming!!!!

Just keep the info coming....and thanks for your effort.

 

[thePill]

This from Mustang Manny (Gaudin Ford) on Facebook. As one of the bigger Mustang dealers around, his info is usually good!

https://www.facebook.com/MustangManny?fref=nf

Doesn't state if those are annual figures though. Over 5 years, I'd hope they are!


Production numbers for the 2016 GT350 have been released.
5,000 GT350
500 GT350 R
Ford plans on making it a 5 year run.

Good info from a very trusted member from a very trusted source.

5 Year Run (1st I've heard that)
5000 GT350's (I heard "around the GT500's numbers" which is 5000-ish)
500 GT350R's (exactly as predicted)

I'm still hearing $52,995 for GT350, almost $5000 for the Track Pack and $64-66,000 for the GT350R.

Sounds good!!!

 

[traxiii]

$10K for VOODOO and all the extras, sounds fair.

 

[Erik427]

I really would love to get my hands on a Voodo. I see this motor as the best chance to reset the production stock N/A record. Low eights might be possible. Just want to beat chevy to the punch. Sorry for the derail.

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