Side by Side header test, same car same day! SW & ARH!

[Mikeiscoo2]

We don't race dyno's when it comes to comparing cars.

That is the point of controlled "in house testing", we dyno, we install, we redyno, same car, same day within 4 hours of each other. And we verify with the logs on the same car.

I support all the brands as well, I wish we had time to do the kooks the same day, and at some point I hope we do.

I appreciate mfg's and even owners like Nick coming to chime in as well. Until he pointed out the tubes didn't have welds, me nor the other 2 guys in the shop didn't even notice it. It's funny how some things get past you. I appreciate seeing the support in the community, and I do think other mfgs could step up their game in that regard. People like to see the support out there. I firmly believe there is value in that support.

I make myself available to my customers 8 to 10pm seven days a week for tech help. I know when it comes to customers being able to reach out, to get an answer on the phone means a lot!

Like I said, we support all the brands as well. That said, the statement to compare 12 different cars for a "number" is silly. The only way to compare them is to do it controlled like we did. Take 12 stock cars, your going to see 12 different numbers more than likely. You think taking a different car or 12 different cars and comparing them is a more valid than testing the same car, same day, within 4 hours, with verified logging is more accurate?? LOL

Once you guys have a facility and start doing things in house with your own dyno and have someone to tune for you and everything is controlled, and you do an actual test, vs throwing your car on someones dyno, it really doesn't mean much.

To simply say "compare our dyno numbers to another car is just "silly". The Lund manual car is running the ARH headers and JLT and made 10hp or so less than what your car made on the dyno, same mods. That doesn't mean you get to the track that the Lund car runs quicker and traps higher with the same mods as you. Every car, every dyno, every day is different. We dyno'd our car last month in what seemed to be identical conditions 2 days apart. The car consistently made 7hp less across the board...

This thread wasn't designed to be a pissing match. It was to do an honest comparison , side by side, look at what we saw to be nice about each system, and give our feed back. I think we did that.

As I said earlier, we have many competitive cars in our Race Team. This year we will have 3 coyote stock, 1 factory stock, 1 super stang, and 1 coyote modified.

We will have a mix of everyone of the major 3 on the cars. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. It's just like the supercharger debate. Which is better, depends on your application and what your trying to do.

Power wise, we made similar power on the systems in a very controlled test. IMO, I can feel comfortable selling each brand and sleep good at night about doing it. We wanted to do a nice comparison and we want to sell products to our customers that we are confident in. I have always been confident in all three of the USA made brands.

If you buy the SW or the ARH, you are putting money in hard working USA based companies that believe in their products. Just as some of us vendors have a friendly rivalry, so do a lot of the mfg's.

I think both systems offer a great value, and you should buy whichever one you want, based on your goals.

We will be doing the same test again, with the blower on the car as well, to see if one brand shines over another once it comes to forced induction!

As the ARH is on the car now, we will start with them, and then work our way backwards! I personally love doing stuff like this as it really is the fun part of what we do.

I thought I'd add a screen shot of the dyno at peak hp from each car as well. I don't think it gets closer than that.

hmm not really sure what im looking at.. but the Left Column shows RPM and i assume the bottom is time?

other than that it looks like a kid took a crayon to that graph..

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[beefcake]

hmm not really sure what im looking at.. but the Left Column shows RPM and i assume the bottom is time?

other than that it looks like a kid took a crayon to that graph..

the left column of each log is the PID being logged, the right column of each log is the value of that PID

example rpm......6479

6479 rpms

 

[anotherneon]

Yes and no...do they not use the exact system they used on the S197, just like SW? Not trying to be a SW fanboy here, but I'm just trying to understand why someone would throw away $600 more on a system that won't make any more power. At the end of the day, we all just wanna make more power. HP/$ ratio is what I care about, but at the same time I wouldn't buy subpar quality or something made with cheap materials.

Here is my answer to your question. Find me an SCT tuned car with SW headers, JLT intake and sct tune that made 450whp +/-5. Then find me a car with ARH that made 450whp +/-5. I know this test goes against what I am saying but I have yet to see a customer car with 450whp with SW that was tuned via SCT.

 

[beefcake]

Here is my answer to your question. Find me an SCT tuned car with SW headers, JLT intake and sct tune that made 450whp +/-5. Then find me a car with ARH that made 450whp +/-5. I know this test goes against what I am saying but I have yet to see a customer car with 450whp with SW that was tuned via SCT.

I am not trying to sway anyone one way or another, I would defend all 3 companies because of my experience with all three.

That said.

I've done a test on my dime. It appears that an accurate datalogged test on the same car the same day isn't good enough.

So,

I welcome anyone with a manual car, that has either brand, purchase the other brand, bring them to us, pay for the install, and we will do the test again, and they can watch the entire process.



And FYI, I don't see anyone making 450 rwhp with bolt on's on my dyno. She's stingy!

 

[anotherneon]

I am not trying to sway anyone one way or another, I would defend all 3 companies because of my experience with all three.

That said.

I've done a test on my dime. It appears that an accurate datalogged test on the same car the same day isn't good enough.

So,

I welcome anyone with a manual car, that has either brand, purchase the other brand, bring them to us, pay for the install, and we will do the test again, and they can watch the entire process.



And FYI, I don't see anyone making 450 rwhp with bolt on's on my dyno. She's stingy!

The only thing I find "off" about the test was that the car already had SW headers and was tuned for SW headers, after it made the run you installed ARH and dynoed again. I dont know anything about tuning, but I would think a retune for the ARH would be needed. I may install my ARH and tune, dyno it then upload a SW header tune and redyno.

 

[beefcake]

The only thing I find "off" about the test was that the car already had SW headers and was tuned for SW headers, after it made the run you installed ARH and dynoed again. I dont know anything about tuning, but I would think a retune for the ARH would be needed. I may install my ARH and tune, dyno it then upload a SW header tune and redyno.

LOL

 

[ronnies_mustang_5o]

Here is my answer to your question. Find me an SCT tuned car with SW headers, JLT intake and sct tune that made 450whp +/-5. Then find me a car with ARH that made 450whp +/-5. I know this test goes against what I am saying but I have yet to see a customer car with 450whp with SW that was tuned via SCT.

Hey if you want to pay for it, I will gladly take my car to a dyno and post the results. Personally I think dynos are just to inaccurate to waste money on unless I'm getting dyno tuned.

 

[anotherneon]

Hey if you want to pay for it, I will gladly take my car to a dyno and post the results. Personally I think dynos are just to inaccurate to waste money on unless I'm getting dyno tuned.

you can prove me wrong, or do your own research and save yourself the money.

 

[beefcake]

Just to claify as well,

the ARH have 3 configurations, if your doing the short versions just deleting the resonator, list price is $1565 vs sw at $1275

 

[anotherneon]

Just to claify as well,

the ARH have 3 configurations, if your doing the short versions just deleting the resonator, list price is $1565 vs sw at $1275

:lol:

 

[Viperbluecobra]

This really doesn't help me on the muffler bearing issues though. Does it come with high performance bearings or economical spherical bearings?

 

[anotherneon]

This really doesn't help me on the muffler bearing issues though. Does it come with high performance bearings or economical spherical bearings?

If you buy the performance bearings or economical spherical bearings with blinker fluid you get the other for free!

 

[Navyxrays]

What about the Fetzer valve? Should I prepare that with some 3 in 1 oil and gauze pads?

 

[4thstang]

LOL

Thanks for doing the comparo Beefcake,

Interesting thing that I see in this graph is the actual throttle angle on both cars shows 85%.
Any reason that you know of as to why it's not reaching 100%?? :shrug:

Brian S.
06 Tungsten GT vert

 

[beefcake]

Thanks for doing the comparo Beefcake,

Interesting thing that I see in this graph is the actual throttle angle on both cars shows 85%.
Any reason that you know of as to why it's not reaching 100%?? :shrug:

Brian S.
06 Tungsten GT vert

Because 85 is wot.

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