MAPerformance: Ultimate R&D Thread | Air, Fuel, & Turbo Upgrades

[MAPerformance]

That's pretty shocking. The 25 lb figure came from what I assumed to be a general rule of thumb: Aluminum will weigh 1/3 of stainless. I've built several competition race cars including two current ones I own, as well as discussed such topics with other pro teams and all pretty much agree on that. You're now making me question if the world is round. Haha.

Thank you for taking the time to weigh the parts!

Not a problem Leon, I have no problem explaining why we do things. That is the point of this thread. I prefer people to challenge me, it ultimately makes a better product in the end and that is our goal.

I wouldn't question that the world is round, and I wouldn't question your builds. Aluminum is fine, everything has its pros and cons. There is absolutely nothing in our industry that doesn't have a handful of pros and a handful of cons, that is the point of testing and chose the one with the most benefits! For us, it's stainless.

One thing I forgot to mention on the positive side of steel, is that we are dealing with contents under pressure. We are going to be supplying t-bolt clamps with our intercooler piping, which can easily crush an aluminum pipe and cause it to oval. When something gets oval'd that is intended to be round it is fatigued and is prone to failure. In the case of charge piping it can cause boost leaks, or if pressurized too much after oval'ing it can split/crack. Steel doesn't crack, or split for that matter.

Good conversation, again I appreciate it!

-Adam Brunson

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[JustSpeed7]

This maybe a stupid question but is there a way to get those pipes powdercoated or painted in black? Just don't care for the natural stainless finish but they look great other than that! Also would your charge pipes work with let's say full races Intercooler?

 

[MAPerformance]

This maybe a stupid question but is there a way to get those pipes powdercoated or painted in black? Just don't care for the natural stainless finish but they look great other than that! Also would your charge pipes work with let's say full races Intercooler?

As long as Full-Race's intercooler hooks up to the factory charge piping ours will work with it. However if you don't have an intercooler already, you should just hold out for our full kit.

I haven't released our intercooler piping yet, going to be testing them tomorrow on the dyno and see if we need to make any changes at all. However the final options will be as follows:

Turbosmart Vee Port vent to atmosphere
Turbosmart Plumb Back recirculate
Raw Stainless
Powdercoated Wrinkle Black
Custom Powdercoating

So absolutely you can have it in black!

 

[JustSpeed7]

Perfect maybe I will about how long until it's all available? Also so your piping replaces all factory piping?

 

[MAPerformance]

Perfect maybe I will about how long until it's all available? Also so your piping replaces all factory piping?

Correct, it will replace both passenger and drivers side. Passenger is 2.5" and Drivers is 3".

Piping will be available very soon, and intercooler is soon to follow. We are making mock up end tanks now with sheetmetal, then transferring them over to billet on our CNC machine. From there we will decide if we want to keep the end tanks billet, or go to cast.

 

[Shanghai Dan]

That's pretty shocking. The 25 lb figure came from what I assumed to be a general rule of thumb: Aluminum will weigh 1/3 of stainless. I've built several competition race cars including two current ones I own, as well as discussed such topics with other pro teams and all pretty much agree on that. You're now making me question if the world is round. Haha.

Adam, if you re read my post you'll see that I said Aluminum DOESNT insulate as well but they can be remedied by being coated.

Thank you for taking the time to weigh the parts!

Aluminum is 1/3rd the weight of steel. But typically you use a LOT thinner steel when making tubing (where the strength predominantly comes from the shape, not the material).

It is the volume of the metal versus the necessary strength needed that matters. A good quality steel (like 4130) is around 950 MPa tensile yield; 6061 Aluminum is around 240. So aluminum is 1/3rd the weight, but only ~1/4 the strength of steel. So you can use 1/4 the steel for the same strength as you need for aluminum. Net result - pound for pound steel is stronger than aluminum.

Geometry of course affects the strength you can get from a particular part, and that means you may be able to use aluminum and still have plenty of strength. Usually big pieces with large webbings or large radius bends (like in aircraft, or big frames) work well.

And of course, steel is a lot more ductile and easier to rework and reshape, it fatigues a lot slower than aluminum...

 

[MAPerformance]

Aluminum is 1/3rd the weight of steel. But typically you use a LOT thinner steel when making tubing (where the strength predominantly comes from the shape, not the material).

It is the volume of the metal versus the necessary strength needed that matters. A good quality steel (like 4130) is around 950 MPa tensile yield; 6061 Aluminum is around 240. So aluminum is 1/3rd the weight, but only ~1/4 the strength of steel. So you can use 1/4 the steel for the same strength as you need for aluminum. Net result - pound for pound steel is stronger than aluminum.

Geometry of course affects the strength you can get from a particular part, and that means you may be able to use aluminum and still have plenty of strength. Usually big pieces with large webbings or large radius bends (like in aircraft, or big frames) work well.

And of course, steel is a lot more ductile and easier to rework and reshape, it fatigues a lot slower than aluminum...

:love:

 

[boostedCO]

You guys are making me want to start hiding money from my wife! Plan to order a CAI kit here soon.

Enjoying the updates!

 

[MAPerformance]

You guys are making me want to start hiding money from my wife! Plan to order a CAI kit here soon.

Enjoying the updates!

Drop us a line whenever she allows you to pull the trigger on one!

 

[MAPerformance]

Update 2/27/2015:

Custom tune is finalized! Anybody that has purchased an Accessport from MAPerformance is eligible for the custom tune for FREE. You will also receive any updates for Phase 1 for free as well. We will continue to develop the tune as we move forward.

*************

In order to receive your custom tune file, please send email to [email protected] and please include the following information:

Transmission:
Modifications:
Fuel:
Serial Number (Begins with FOR):
Full Name on Order:

**************

Full Phase 1 tune is available now, which is MAPerformance Intake, Downpipe, Catback. 100% Stock EBM tune will be available early next week. Tunes for customers running just MAP downpipe will be available next week as well. Anybody that purchased an AP from us and purchased another intake, downpipe, or exhaust we will have something for you as well so please feel free to email as well!

Here is full Phase 1 package dyno graphs. By itself, vs Cobb OTS and compared against stock. Below that will be the boost and afr plot to show how we were able to smooth out the boost curve vs the Cobb OTS tune. All runs were done on 93 octane with the factory intercooler piping and diverter valve.

Phase 1 with MAP Custom Tune

Phase 1 with MAP Custom Tune vs Cobb OTS 93oct STG 1

Phase 1 with MAP Custom Tune vs Stock

Here are boost and AFR overlays between Phase 1 with MAP Custom tune vs Cobb OTS 93oct STG 1. These graphs were done with time as the X-Axis, if we used engine speed it would of looked like we cut our pull short. Time shows that our car reaches the end of the pull much faster as it is producing more power.

As you can see our boost curve is much smoother than the OTS tune, and our AFR is also more stable through the pull. Not to mention a +76hp and +144tq gain over stock!

MAP Tune Average AFR after peak boost: 11.43:1
Cobb Tune Average AFR after peak boost: 11.26:1

MAP Tune Average Boost after peak boost: 22.96psi
Cobb Tune Average Boost after peak boost: 22.72psi

To recap, here is a list of tunes that will be available next week:

Stock EBM 91/93
EBM with Catless downpipe 91/93
EBM with MAP Phase 1 Package 91/93


UPDATE PART 2:

On the previous page I posted a picture of our core for the intercooler we will be producing. Now our prototype endtanks have been fabricated and the intercooler has be installed on the car. We are planning on testing the intercooler this weekend or early next week. The first part of testing will be to make sure the intercooler core is efficient in cooling the extreme charge temps the EBM generates. Once we determine the cooling efficiency is up to par, we will finalize the end tanks. We will be looking into billet end tanks, or cast end tanks depending on which one wins the cost:effectiveness ratio.

Here are some pictures I snapped last night of the intercooler fitted to 15SVO's EBM with stock intercooler piping.

As testing is performed I will be updating the thread with pictures, graphs, and data. Hope to have another full update around Tuesday of next week!

If you have any questions, please post up!

 

[cosmo]

Impressive set of gains! So that's what a bolt-on Ecoboost will look like. I believe those numbers are similar to the numbers Livernois had when they ran their 11s run. Any plans for a trip to the track?

 

[15svo]

When the weather finally gets good here in Minnesota I will be bringing mine to the track with factory front wheels and drag radials.

 

[MAPerformance]

Impressive set of gains! So that's what a bolt-on Ecoboost will look like. I believe those numbers are similar to the numbers Livernois had when they ran their 11s run. Any plans for a trip to the track?

We will be hitting the track as soon as the weather clears, currently -4 here and there is some snow on the ground still!

 

[JustSpeed7]

Sent a PM had a quick question about the factory diverter valve. Have you guys experienced any turbo flutter? Or factory diverter valve issues?

 

[MAPerformance]

Replied to your PM about 1 minute ago ;). No issues with stock diverter under 25psi, soon as you crack 26psi you start to have some odd behavior from the factory valve.

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