Poll: Is a GT500 an upgrade over a GT350?

[Whitedevil95]

In my opinion, a GT500 is not an upgrade to a GT350. Because I’m not after a 10.9@134 or a 2:44 VIR lap. The word upgrade does not by definition mean only objectively faster or more powerful vehicles. Because, if so, a Lucid Air Sapphire is an upgrade to a GT500. 9.0@155 and a 2:40 VIR lap, ouch.

If we are looking at performance and value yes the Lucid Air is an amazing car and an upgrade from a GT500. You are correct. Thats why you pay 250k for it. Its an upgrade. Now youre argument isnt quite as good because a 500 and a 350 are based on the same chassis and the 500 smokes it in all performance metrics, with one exeption your feels, ouch.

FASTER in every metric, more valuable, based on the same chasis = UPGRADE

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[Whitedevil95]

I wouldn’t have played that card until the “rod knocking oil burning” and other comments about “retarded” answers came from……. Lemme check, oh yeah, Mach 1 land.

It’s not really that difficult. I’ve been on these forums since I joined Corral.net in ‘95 when I bought my ‘95 GTS and immediately started modding it. You’re genuinely surprised 50% of us don’t see the GT500 as an upgrade, and that’s perfectly fine. I’m genuinely surprised anyone could create any poll about any subject on the Internet and be surprised others think differently. But, here we are. And, I still like Mach 1s too

I love 350s almost bought one. Test drove a couple. I am like you, i was on corral, later stangnet, later SVT Performance. I had a 347 stroked 95 GT back in the day had an amazing choppy choppy cam. I just got my mach 1 a few months ago. I am a Ford and Mustang guy through and through.

 

[PP0001]

Mach 1-owning OP here. Since I don’t own either a 350 or a 500 and obviously don’t have a dog in the fight, I didn’t think anyone would play that card, but OK.

it was more a natural curiosity about something that I did not think could possibly be argued, but saw it argued in another thread. So I started this one to see if anyone else felt the same way and clearly they do. To me it’s no different than someone saying there’s more beer in a 12 ounce can than a 16 ounce can, and not being able to comprehend how anyone could make that argument.

If your post and poll numbers were limited to Mustang enthusiasts that have actually owned or have had significant seat in either a GT350/R or a GT500/CFTP model, it would be interesting to see the results of that scenario?

A few years ago I was living in the Coachella Valley and my daily driver was a Race Red 2015 Mustang Shelby GT350 but also drove my 2018 GT350R and 2020 GT350R quite often as well..

During that time I was also able to get some significant seat time in a 2020 GT500 and before I fired up that unit I decided to do a visual of the GT500 which the massive engine compartment that contained 6 heat exchangers based on heat soak concerns for the along with hood vents.

No question that the supercharged 5.2L CPC Predator engine was a beast but with a GT500 base model coming with a curb weight of ~400# more than the GT350/R and with a lot of that on the front end I expected to experience that under some spirited driving.

I did not weigh the GT500 but did weigh my 2018 GT350R Base model and the curb weight came in at 3,620# whereas the 2020 GT350R HEP that I ordered without the Tech Package came in at about #100 heavier than the 2018 GT350R.

Fired up the GT500 and went cruising for a couple of hours in the backroads of the desert along with some interstate driving time.

Acceleration was incredible and certainly quicker and faster compared to my GT350R models but could certainly feel the weight difference when it came to braking, steering and handling and was not near as nimble as that of its little brothers.

Overall power and straight-line performance to the GT500 but steering, handling and braking easily went to the GT350/R models.

Drove the GT500 in Sport Mode and enjoyed the aural sound of the CPC engine but it was not nearly as engaging and enjoying as my GT350R models which both came with resonator delete and especially the Base R model which also did not come with any sound deadener therefore the sound was an easy choice in favor of the GT350R.

When it came to the 7-speed DCT it was very quick and precise but it was not a match in terms of overall engagement/enjoyment when compared to the Tremec TR-3160 thus an easy nod to the GT350R.

I found the overall design of the GT500 to be nice but the large opening of the front fascia was just too massive but did like the hood pins that were designed by a retired Ford engineer but found the design of the GT350/R much more appealing therefore another win for the GT350/R models.

After significant seat time in the GT500 I enjoyed my time but found that I got bored quite easily with the DCT even when paddle shifting and found when downshifting the DCT it sounded quite clunky at times.

The extra 750 RPM that came with the NA 5.2L FPC along with 3-peddles. much better sounding engine note, better design and superior overall handing were the deciding factors for me in favor of the 6-year run of the Mustang Shelby GT350/R models.

 

[UpACurb]

If your post and poll numbers were limited to Mustang enthusiasts that have actually owned or have had significant seat in either a GT350/R or a GT500/CFTP model, it would be interesting to see the results of that scenario?

A few years ago I was living in the Coachella Valley and my daily driver was a Race Red 2015 Mustang Shelby GT350 but also drove my 2018 GT350R and 2020 GT350R quite often as well..

During that time I was also able to get some significant seat time in a 2020 GT500 and before I fired up that unit I decided to do a visual of the GT500 which the massive engine compartment that contained 6 heat exchangers based on heat soak concerns for the along with hood vents.

No question that the supercharged 5.2L CPC Predator engine was a beast but with a GT500 base model coming with a curb weight of ~400# more than the GT350/R and with a lot of that on the front end I expected to experience that under some spirited driving.

I did not weigh the GT500 but did weigh my 2018 GT350R Base model and the curb weight came in at 3,620# whereas the 2020 GT350R HEP that I ordered without the Tech Package came in at about #100 heavier than the 2018 GT350R.

Fired up the GT500 and went cruising for a couple of hours in the backroads of the desert along with some interstate driving time.

Acceleration was incredible and certainly quicker and faster compared to my GT350R models but could certainly feel the weight difference when it came to braking, steering and handling and was not near as nimble as that of its little brothers.

Overall power and straight-line performance to the GT500 but steering, handling and braking easily went to the GT350/R models.

Drove the GT500 in Sport Mode and enjoyed the aural sound of the CPC engine but it was not nearly as engaging and enjoying as my GT350R models which both came with resonator delete and especially the Base R model which also did not come with any sound deadener therefore the sound was an easy choice in favor of the GT350R.

When it came to the 7-speed DCT it was very quick and precise but it was not a match in terms of overall engagement/enjoyment when compared to the Tremec TR-3160 thus an easy nod to the GT350R.

I found the overall design of the GT500 to be nice but the large opening of the front fascia was just too massive but did like the hood pins that were designed by a retired Ford engineer but found the design of the GT350/R much more appealing therefore another win for the GT350/R models.

After significant seat time in the GT500 I enjoyed my time but found that I got bored quite easily with the DCT even when paddle shifting and found when downshifting the DCT it sounded quite clunky at times.

The extra 750 RPM that came with the NA 5.2L FPC along with 3-peddles. much better sounding engine note, better design and superior overall handing were the deciding factors for me in favor of the 6-year run of the Mustang Shelby GT350/R models.

Yep i agree ... I definitely understand how someone might choose the GT500... it's an incredible car ... it was a tough choice choosing between the two 350R vs 500 CFTP ... Just my personal preference was the R as well but definitely see how someone might choose the 500 instead ...

The car i sold to buy my R ... I owned it for over 20 years so was time to move on....and yes it was real ....not a clone....so let's just say price wasn't a consideration when I chose the R ....

 

[PP0001]

Yep i agree ... I definitely understand how someone might choose the GT500... it's an incredible car ... it was a tough choice choosing between the two 350R vs 500 CFTP ... Just my personal preference was the R as well but definitely see how someone might choose the 500 instead ...

The car i sold to buy my R ... I owned it for over 20 years so was time to move on....and yes it was real ....not a clone....so let's just say price wasn't a consideration when I chose the R ....

Very nice example and looks to be an early LAX built 1967 Shelby GT500 based on the inboard high beam lights that later had to be changed over to outboard high beam lights as various State DMV's did not allow your high beam configuration!

 

[Epiphany]

I've owned both. Tracked both. Modified both. Multiple 14 hr, straight through drives in both. Loved both.

For me, I like to hang on to my vehicles for a while. I saw the service record data for the Ford Performance Driving School cars, both GT350 and GT500. The GT350 cars did not bode particularly well but the GT500 cars were relatively unscathed. That was really the only metric that drove me to favor the 500. Aside from warranty extensions, both cars are now pretty much on their own. The 500 at least has the DH SC to extend the availability of certain parts that directly replace those on the 500 were they to fail.

So I don't see one car as better than the other. I just see each as a collection of parts that I want to see last a long time, moving forward. I chose the fatty in this regard.

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

As we approach our Great Nation’s 250th birthday I’ll paraphrase Patrick Henry to sum up my position one last time: “Give me a Tremec, and a Voodoo, or give me death!”

And again, had I not found my perfect color combo/Recaro low miles GT350 I was going to go ZL-1 for that Tremec since they are an absolute riot with fantastic chassis balance and feel/feedback through the wheel.

 

[Whitedevil95]

As we approach our Great Nation’s 250th birthday I’ll paraphrase Patrick Henry to sum up my position one last time: “Give me a Tremec, and a Voodoo, or give me death!”

And again, had I not found my perfect color combo/Recaro low miles GT350 I was going to go ZL-1 for that Tremec since they are an absolute riot with fantastic chassis balance and feel/feedback through the wheel.

I Absolutely Love my Tremec!

 

[dccz302]

As we approach our Great Nation’s 250th birthday I’ll paraphrase Patrick Henry to sum up my position one last time: “Give me a Tremec, and a Voodoo, or give me death!”

And again, had I not found my perfect color combo/Recaro low miles GT350 I was going to go ZL-1 for that Tremec since they are an absolute riot with fantastic chassis balance and feel/feedback through the wheel.

I would like to believe that Patrick Henry was a rational and clever man. So he would like have likely chosen the TREMEC and Coyote combo, which leads to a Mach 1.

I get that many GT350 owners buy it as an investment, much like a stock. So it’s all about creating a perception or illusion of value. However, realistically, a GT500 is the superior choice. The tried and true Predator motor.

Want a manual? Get the tried and true Coyote with a TREMEC in a Mach 1.

The Voodoo is flawed motor. Ford literally inserted a FPC, in a motor never designed for it (hence the excessive vibrations). And Ford only did this because they got wind of GM’s project “Gemini” in 2014. This why the Predator has a CPC. GM designed a motor with a FPC from inception.

 

[Whitedevil95]

I would like to believe that Patrick Henry was a rational and clever man. So he would like have likely chosen the TREMEC and Coyote combo, which leads to a Mach 1.

I get that many GT350 owners buy it as an investment, much like a stock. So it’s all about creating a perception or illusion of value. However, realistically, a GT500 is the superior choice. The tried and true Predator motor.

Want a manual? Get the tried and true Coyote with a TREMEC in a Mach 1.

The Voodoo is flawed motor. Ford literally inserted a FPC, in a motor never designed for it (hence the excessive vibrations). And Ford only did this because they got wind of GM’s project “Gemini” in 2014. This why the Predator has a CPC. GM designed a motor with a FPC from inception.

Rational man right here.

 

[mavisky]

Right, so the 500 isn't really an upgrade then maybe? It lost a lot of what people who love the 350 value. HP and lap times aren't all there are to a car, so calling it an upgrade only because it's faster doesn't really seem correct with the nuances we all know exist between the cars.

I think it could only be an upgrade if it took what made the 350 so good and improved on it, instead it lost much of what makes a 350 special and did its own thing.

It simply can't be an upgrade over the 350 in my book because it does not offer a manual option.

I see it as fixing a lot of the flaws of the GT350. The unreliable engine that doesn't make any torque down low. The slow shifting manual that costs you time at every gear change. They traded "passion and engagement" for performance. To some that's a downgrade, but others would absolutely say it's an upgrade. Hence the fatal flaw in this entire thread. It's all subjective when you don't put parameters around how you define "upgrade".

3 contradictions in the first sentence of the main paragraph. But, yes, a GT2 or GT500 are faster than a GT3 or GT350 in most any situation. So yes, if that’s what you seek then it is obviously an upgrade. But, the Porsche GT boards are full of threads just like this where the 9K rpm Metzger engine crew will not have anything to do with the GT2’s TT monster of an F6. And, some also have GT350s from what I’ve read.

Btw, I have J0028, you’re the closest I’ve seen so far in production order.

I don't think you know what the word "contradiction" means. You just disagree with my definition of "upgrade". Just because the car is heavier and doesn't sound as good doesn't mean it's not measurably better in every other metric. Both the GT2 and GT500 accelerate better, shift faster (at least in the comparison of manual vs dct), brake better, run better lap times, and hold higher resale value.

I think J0012 or something similar is on the site as well, but haven't looked for that in a long time.

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

I would like to believe that Patrick Henry was a rational and clever man. So he would like have likely chosen the TREMEC and Coyote combo, which leads to a Mach 1.

I get that many GT350 owners buy it as an investment, much like a stock. So it’s all about creating a perception or illusion of value. However, realistically, a GT500 is the superior choice. The tried and true Predator motor.

Want a manual? Get the tried and true Coyote with a TREMEC in a Mach 1.

The Voodoo is flawed motor. Ford literally inserted a FPC, in a motor never designed for it (hence the excessive vibrations). And Ford only did this because they got wind of GM’s project “Gemini” in 2014. This why the Predator has a CPC. GM designed a motor with a FPC from inception.

The last paragraph has some misinformation. Ferrari and most all fpcs have excessive vibration as well and they deal with it via engine mounts that mitigate it. Ferrari design fpcs as such from inception. Also their crank is 0,180,180,0 like 2 I4s vs Voodoo’s 0,180,0,180 to stick with a single intake for F/R engine packaging. And, Ford pushed things more with a 5.2 vs Ferrari’s typical <4.5L.

Regarding investments and illusions of value, well, I bought my 350 to drive, hence the 6 yr extended warranty, and the market determines value, illusory or no. The 350 is/has/will out value the Mach 1, that just wasn’t my concern at all.

My final argument is that Patrick Henry and most of the Founding Fathers were not safe, and rational, they were visionaries reaching for something heretofore only successful millennia prior - a Democratic Republic of, by, and for the people. The rational folks mostly sided with the Crown because that was the far safer and more rational play.

 

[wingnutt]

They traded "passion and engagement" for performance. To some that's a downgrade, but others would absolutely say it's an upgrade. Hence the fatal flaw in this entire thread. It's all subjective when you don't put parameters around how you define "upgrade".

this right here, times eleventy [/thread]

 

[PP0001]

The last paragraph has some misinformation. Ferrari and most all fpcs have excessive vibration as well and they deal with it via engine mounts that mitigate it. Ferrari design fpcs as such from inception. Also their crank is 0,180,180,0 like 2 I4s vs Voodoo’s 0,180,0,180 to stick with a single intake for F/R engine packaging. And, Ford pushed things more with a 5.2 vs Ferrari’s typical <4.5L.

Regarding investments and illusions of value, well, I bought my 350 to drive, hence the 6 yr extended warranty, and the market determines value, illusory or no. The 350 is/has/will out value the Mach 1, that just wasn’t my concern at all.

My final argument is that Patrick Henry and most of the Founding Fathers were not safe, and rational, they were visionaries reaching for something heretofore only successful millennia prior - a Democratic Republic of, by, and for the people. The rational folks mostly sided with the Crown because that was the far safer and more rational play.

Just a waste of time and effort when responding back to another troll.

 

[wingnutt]

I get that many GT350 owners buy it as an investment, much like a stock. So it’s all about creating a perception or illusion of value. However, realistically, a GT500 is the superior choice. The tried and true Predator motor.

Want a manual? Get the tried and true Coyote with a TREMEC in a Mach 1.

The Voodoo is flawed motor. Ford literally inserted a FPC, in a motor never designed for it (hence the excessive vibrations). And Ford only did this because they got wind of GM’s project “Gemini” in 2014. This why the Predator has a CPC. GM designed a motor with a FPC from inception.

hard pass on all accounts…85k on my 350r from San Diego to Savana and all points in between. I could give a flying chit about value, I will never sell this car and will buy another 350r sooner than later.

Test drove the M1 when they first appeared and it just doesn’t have the same je ne sais quoi for me to make the jump…your mileage may vary, shake well before using and do not leave in direct sunlight

Since they are so flawed, please point me to the corresponding drop in value vs. the 500 so I can purchase according to their terrible value…I’ll wait right here for ya

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