Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[Vlad Soare]

Science is great when misinformed / ignorant people pushing an agenda are not involved.

Sure. But that goes both ways.

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[Gregs24]

Sure. But that goes both ways.

Not really

Evidence based scientific research is exactly what it says. Fairy tail based misinformation is also correctly described.

You choose what to believe but only one is correct.

Some of the complete bullshit pedalled by antivaxxers is dangerous. Vaccines eliminate or control diseases, this has been well understood for many years.

Where is Smallpox now? Why until recently was Measles well controlled?

 

[Vlad Soare]

Not really

Yes, really.
One political agenda is not better than the other simply because you happen to consider one side as the "good" guys and the other as the "bad".

Besides, you're missing the point. This isn't about whether vaccines generally work or not. I know they do. Most of the antivaxxers know they do. What they are opposing is not the concept of a vaccine per se, but the way a rushed, untested one has been shoved down their throats for political reasons. This has nothing to do with science, and everything to do with politics. And mixing politics with science is equally bad regardless of whether it's being done by the "good" or the "bad" guys.

 

[Gregs24]

Yes, really.
One political agenda is not better than the other simply because you happen to consider one side as the "good" guys and the other as the "bad".

There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' in evidence based medicine.

Politics doesn't come into it.

Medicine is not based on political beliefs. It is based on medical evidence which is exactly why the new cancer vaccines work and how they came to be developed - based on evidence.

 

[Vlad Soare]

There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' in evidence based medicine.

No, but there are 'good' or 'bad' guys when it comes to how said medicine is forcefully imposed on the people.

 

[Gregs24]

No, but there are 'good' or 'bad' guys when it comes to how said medicine is forcefully imposed on the people.

Nobody is imposing or forcing anything on you or anybody else.

Don't confuse advice with demands.

Likewise don't confuse false narratives by antivaxxers as evidence for not vaccinating.

 

[Vlad Soare]

There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' in evidence based medicine.

Politics doesn't come into it.

Politics can come into it if the evidence is skewed to fit political interests.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Nobody is imposing or forcing anything on you or anybody else.

Don't confuse advice with demands.

You're kidding, right?
I don't know how nicely and politely your government tried to convince you to take the vaccine, but over here people had their entire lives completely blocked unless they took it. Formally you weren't forced to, but proof of vaccination was a requirement for almost everything except breathing. Over here it wasn't 'advice'. It was actually forced, even if not literally.
Besides, in some countries (e.g. Austria) it was actually mandatory. You could be fined for not taking it. If that's not imposing/forcing, then I don't know what is.

 

[Gregs24]

Politics can come into it if the evidence is skewed to fit political interests.

Evidence is evidence - it is never skewed. If you choose to ignore it that is political

 

[Gregs24]

You're kidding, right?
I don't know how nicely and politely your government tried to convince you to take the vaccine, but over here people had their entire lives completely blocked unless they took it. Formally you weren't forced to, but proof of vaccination was a requirement for almost everything except breathing. Over here it wasn't 'advice'. It was actually forced, even if not literally.
Besides, in some countries (e.g. Austria) it was actually mandatory. You could be fined for not taking it. If that's not imposing/forcing, then I don't know what is.

I'm not speaking for the whole world but if it was a requirement for certain situations then so be it. There are plenty of medical jobs where vaccination against certain conditions is a requirement. No vaccine, no job.

Choose between doing the job meeting the requirements or not. It is the same as qualifications, you don't have them then you cannot do the job. However nobody is forcing you to do anything, you just have choices to make if you want to go down a certain route.

In the UK COVID vaccination of the general public was strongly advised (and well taken up). Compulsion was considered but thought it would actually reduce vaccination numbers so not done. We have had a comprehensive independent COVID inquiry running for some time to learn lessons from the pandemic here in the UK. Public Health (as opposed to individual health) is a structure within and outside government that has a role in protecting the general population from disease and illness whether they realise the risk or not. It covers all sorts of things such as food safety, water purity and disease response. The inquiry results are feeding back into our public health systems to improve the UK response in the event of another pandemic (which there will surely be one day) This is good evidence based medicine and safety policy.

UK Covid-19 Inquiry

There have been many studies covering how many lives were saved by COVID vaccines - easy to find if you want to. Evidence based of course.

You seem to be only talking about COVID here when I was talking about all vaccines.

Believe me some people need saving from themselves sometimes (or for the benefit of others) A recent example being the hantavirus outbreak on the cruise ship, the UK has a defined plan of action for such situations involving isolation and medication based on evidence. This is to protect not just the individuals concerned but also the wider population and sometimes this means restrictions on certain individuals.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Evidence is evidence - it is never skewed. If you choose to ignore it that is political

Evidence can be skewed, can be falsified, can be fabricated or concealed. It has happened before, and will most certainly happen again in the future.
I'm not saying this has happened in the case of the COVID vaccines. I'm just discussing a general principle. Evidence is only as credible as the entity providing it.

Choose between doing the job meeting the requirements or not. It is the same as qualifications, you don't have them then you cannot do the job. However nobody is forcing you to do anything, you just have choices.

Fair enough. I don't have a problem with that. If it's an intrinsic requirement for that job, so be it.
I do, however, have a problem when:
1. It was never a requirement for your job, but it has become one now.
2. It has become a requirement not just for your job, but for all the small, regular day-to-day activities, like buying a pair of shoes or a cup of coffee.

You seem to be only talking about COVID here when I was talking about all vaccines.

Yes, because COVID is the only one I have a problem with. Like I said, I have nothing against vaccines in general. I am vaccinated, my kids are vaccinated.
All I am against is having a (hurriedly tested) vaccine shoved down my throat by a bunch of politicians.
If a vaccine undergoes all the necessary procedures and tests, and its test protocols are thoroughly documented and publicly available, and, most importantly, it is offered to me in the form of advice, then I'm all for it.

Believe me some people need saving from themselves sometimes (or for the benefit of others) A recent example being the hantavirus outbreak on the cruise ship, the UK has a defined plan of action for such situations involving isolation and medication based on evidence.

As long as said plan of action stays within the boundaries of the law and the Constitution (which in Romania and a big part of the EU wasn't the case back then), I'm fine with it.

 

[wingnutt]

Choose between doing the job meeting the requirements or not. It is the same as qualifications, you don't have them then you cannot do the job. However nobody is forcing you to do anything, you just have choices to make if you want to go down a certain route.

 

[Nightmonkey]

There are plenty of medical jobs where vaccination against certain conditions is a requirement. No vaccine, no job.

By the way, the same applies here to church employers. If you're not a member of the church, you won't get the job. This is legally permissible, so there is certainly no reason to question a decision based on reason rather than faith.

 

[Jimmy Dean]

Nobody is imposing or forcing anything on you or anybody else.

Don't confuse advice with demands.

Likewise don't confuse false narratives by antivaxxers as evidence for not vaccinating.

The fact that I lost my job in 2022 says otherwise

 

[Gregs24]

The fact that I lost my job in 2022 says otherwise

You had the choice - comply with the requirement or not, you chose no too and hence lost your job. Nobody held you down and vaccinated you!

I assume you lost your job because you refused to be vaccinated against COVID?

Not sure what your job was but that may have been relevent?

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