Car randomly sputtering and switching off. Then working normal.

[sk47]

Hi Sk47,
Thank you for your input.

The cans were 5 liters each, (hard plastic?), and were stored in the trunk of the car. They were never still and they basically "bounced" around the trunk for 2.5 months.

I thought, if I ever want to increase the HP of the car I will need anyways something like the DW400 so I went for it.

The day I had to tow it: I went and tested the car 30 minutes and it run perfectly. Let it rest. Test 30 minutes more (fast, slow, you name it). Run perfectly.
Lastly took it home and failed 4 minutes after starting. Check engine light.

Today I went to it and it started like nothing. 0 sputtering, 0 gurgling. No engine light. Smooth as a baby.

I had a KD2006 ghost immobilizer the mechanic cut off because he said it was not giving the right power to the fuel pump. Could this lack of power fry it somehow? The thing is, sometimes it works, and when it does, it works great.

What are your thoughts on this?

MARIO

Hello; The hard plastic and bouncing make little difference. Put some ice water in a plastic glass, a metal glass or a glass glass on a humid day. All will condense on the outside. Plastic has a big advantage over metal fuel tanks in that the bottom of the tank will not rust. A friend parked his 911 Porsche too long with water in the tank. Bad surface rust.

Bouncing will sort of keep the water mixed as long as the bouncing continues. Pour the gas inro the tank and let the car sit for an hour and the water will separate. You will have a layer of water at the bottom with gasoline on top. ( see specific gravity I think)

"Lastly took it home and failed 4 minutes after starting. Check engine light." Another unsupported WAG. The older carbs likely were more tolerant of passing water droplets than are modern FI systems. Each cylinder terminates in an injector with fine openings. Drops of water small enough the glide thru a carb might be too much for an injector to deal with. The injector will have high pressure behind it ( maybe 55 psi or more) and will eventually push the gob of water thru.
Do you have ethanol in your national fuel supply? If yes keep the tank full or no lower than 3/4's till spring ( warm weather). If no then consider an additive such as alcohol or other water remover in addition to keeping the tank as full as possible. Nice thing about my suggestion is it cost nothing extra even if the problem is not related.

I dislike immobilizers. I have no idea if yours can be the issue. Also no clear idea if low voltage to the fuel pump has damaged it. Electrical issues tend to eventually get worse. I gather you are early in the "throw parts" at a problem phase. Let me suggest another tack. Invest in some test equipment or pay for some specific tests. First among them being a fuel pressure test. If the high-pressure fuel injection rail has a proper test port a gauge can simply be attached. ( port should be a Schrader type valve) Test the pressure. If it holds the issue is much less likely the fuel pump.

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[Don Mario]

Hello; The hard plastic and bouncing make little difference. Put some ice water in a plastic glass, a metal glass or a glass glass on a humid day. All will condense on the outside. Plastic has a big advantage over metal fuel tanks in that the bottom of the tank will not rust. A friend parked his 911 Porsche too long with water in the tank. Bad surface rust.

Bouncing will sort of keep the water mixed as long as the bouncing continues. Pour the gas inro the tank and let the car sit for an hour and the water will separate. You will have a layer of water at the bottom with gasoline on top. ( see specific gravity I think)

"Lastly took it home and failed 4 minutes after starting. Check engine light." Another unsupported WAG. The older carbs likely were more tolerant of passing water droplets than are modern FI systems. Each cylinder terminates in an injector with fine openings. Drops of water small enough the glide thru a carb might be too much for an injector to deal with. The injector will have high pressure behind it ( maybe 55 psi or more) and will eventually push the gob of water thru.
Do you have ethanol in your national fuel supply? If yes keep the tank full or no lower than 3/4's till spring ( warm weather). If no then consider an additive such as alcohol or other water remover in addition to keeping the tank as full as possible. Nice thing about my suggestion is it cost nothing extra even if the problem is not related.

I dislike immobilizers. I have no idea if yours can be the issue. Also no clear idea if low voltage to the fuel pump has damaged it. Electrical issues tend to eventually get worse. I gather you are early in the "throw parts" at a problem phase. Let me suggest another tack. Invest in some test equipment or pay for some specific tests. First among them being a fuel pressure test. If the high-pressure fuel injection rail has a proper test port a gauge can simply be attached. ( port should be a Schrader type valve) Test the pressure. If it holds the issue is much less likely the fuel pump.

I always kept the car above half tank or so. Had it since Dec (4000km).
Here I fill the car with European 95 gasoline, I believe equivalent to 91 in the US.

As far as I read, we have 95% octane and 5% ethanol in it. Should I try to find around here something like the STP Water Remover Product? Previous owner had the car sitting outside so could have caused what you mention I believe.
Now the car seems to run, is at half tank; you recon ideally I should fill it up?

 

[ORRadtech]

I feel like you're hyper focused on the fuel system. Maybe rightly, IDK. The thing is, neither do you. You've gotten a CEL and not said what the code is. You've not said what your fuel pressure is when experiencing the problem.
At this point it may, or may, be fuel related. The symptoms you're describing, leaving the fuel jugs out of it, could just as easily be an intermittent crank position sensor.
If you don't have the tools/expertise then perhaps you should do as your mechanic suggests and leave it with them until it can be recreated.

 

[sk47]

I always kept the car above half tank or so. Had it since Dec (4000km).
Here I fill the car with European 95 gasoline, I believe equivalent to 91 in the US.

As far as I read, we have 95% octane and 5% ethanol in it. Should I try to find around here something like the STP Water Remover Product? Previous owner had the car sitting outside so could have caused what you mention I believe.
Now the car seems to run, is at half tank; you recon ideally I should fill it up?

Hello; You are in Europe so still in winter. So yes, I suggest filling it up and keeping it close to full for the remaining weeks till warm weather. Modern vehicles are better sealed in terms of fuel systems so being outside is less of an issue than decades in the past. I do still try to keep at least half a tank during cold weather anyway.
Five percent ethanol ought to be enough to deal with water assuming such was the issue. You likely have run out whatever water there was by now. Keep tank full and do not keep fuel in the trunk outside in winter in less sealed containers. Also keep in mind my guessing is just that a guess.
As far as 91 or 95 octane, this should not matter. Unless an Euro spec car is different that USA Ford has a tune which adapts to most octanes.

 

[sk47]

The symptoms you're describing, leaving the fuel jugs out of it, could just as easily be an intermittent crank position sensor.

Hello; You stole my second WAG. A faulty Crank sensor might do the problems. Friend had a jeep with intermittent running problems. Eventually replaced the crank sensor and fixed it. Very good guess.
I also agree that to not think of other possible possibilities can be a mistake. Modern cars diagnosis has double edged benefits. It is often great to have codes but there is still detective work to do beyond a code.
I also would like to know the codes thrown and other test results. Throwing parts at a modern car gets expensive in a hurry. Might be replacing good parts in such a hunt.

Another WAG. had an immobilizer fault keep my car from starting before. OP posts that his immobilizer system is now disconnected and car runs fine. Kind of gather this might be an aftermarket system??? may have been the issue???

 

[Don Mario]

They checked codes in mechanic and car has 0 errors (only one about the curtain airbag of right side; too high ohm).

Immobilizer is cut off.

What could I tell them to check?
1. Crank sensor
2. ?
3. Ground cable etc they said it's fine.

 

[sk47]

They checked codes in mechanic and car has 0 errors (only one about the curtain airbag of right side; too high ohm).

Immobilizer is cut off.

What could I tell them to check?
1. Crank sensor
2. ?
3. Ground cable etc they said it's fine.

how to test a crankshaft position sensor - Search (bing.com)

 

[EcoVert]

If it has happened more than once I'd say throttle body.

 

[Don Mario]

If it has happened more than once I'd say throttle body.

It is an ON and OFF issue indeed. Sometimes the car runs perfectly, sometimes it doesn't and switches off.

 

[sk47]

It is an ON and OFF issue indeed. Sometimes the car runs perfectly, sometimes it doesn't and switches off.

Hello; I am confused. The car is continuing to have the issues you reported??? If so, I had the mistaken notion the issue went away.
If the problem is continuing the poor fuel or water in the fuel becomes much less likely. I assume you have run a tank or more of fresh fuel thru the engine. If so, the only other two notions about the fuel which come to mind are to (1) switch to a different source (gas station). Idea being a station may have problems with their fuel. (2) Do not overfill the tank. Stop at the first nozzle click off. Modern cars have somewhat complex fuel plumbing systems that can be messed up with too much fuel. Just because we can get additional fuel in does not mean it is a wise thing to do.

Best i gather you bought a used car. A low confidence guess has to do with aftermarket tunes. One of the reasons i hesitate to buy a used Mustang is that a tune may be added. I understand the general idea of tunes but lack experience with hands on use.

Last guess today. Back in the 1970's I had a German car with the Jetronic fuel injection. I learned to check electrical connections and vacuum lines when rough running happened. Connections were not so well sealed back then.

Last last guess today. Just had a horrible thought. Is it possible the car was flooded to any degree? There are shops in my area such a London Auto Sales near London KY which fix up flooded cars and trucks. A friend has bought such cars. Those same electrical connectors which are great for keeping out rain and spray in ordinary use also will trap moisture if a car is flooded.

 

[Don Mario]

Not flooded as far as I know.
No mods afaik.
Car ran well for 4300 kilometers.

Now problem is intermitent. Sometimes it starts and runs. Then shuts down.
No error codes.

No hints from any electronic system that something could be wrong (seats, computer etc all work fine).

Mechanic said his bet is 99% fuel pump but that he is not sure...

 

[CrackedHorn]

I had a 17 fiesta (don't laugh) do this to me a couple of times when new. It was something with the evap system.

It happened twice within 2 weeks and then never again while I owned it.

 

[Don Mario]

I had a 17 fiesta (don't laugh) do this to me a couple of times when new. It was something with the evap system.

It happened twice within 2 weeks and then never again while I owned it.

I never laugh at man car. Right now the car driving me around, bc Mustang decided not to..., is a Fiat Stilo...

I will propose this to mechanic.
Monday car will go to mechanic, will get new DW400 pump and not leave until is good and running.

 

[sk47]

I had a 17 fiesta (don't laugh) do this to me a couple of times when new. It was something with the evap system.

It happened twice within 2 weeks and then never again while I owned it.

Hello; This is why I suggest to not overfill a cars fuel tank. The evaporative system has a number of valves and a canister usually filled with something like activated charcoal. The idea is to trap fuel vapors that in the past simply evaporated into the air.
One problem with a truly sealed system is as the fuel is used up by the engine a vacuum effect will happen in the gas tank unless somehow air pressure can be equalized between outside air and the inside air of the tank. Simple enough for sure just have a small opening with a one way valve.
The bigger problem happens when we fill up a tank and let the car sit a few days. The fuel comes from a storage tank usually in the ground around here. Ground stored fuel will be at a cool temperature in the mid 50 degrees F. Fill up our tank and park the car on a warm or hot day the fuel will warm up. May expand some but mostly will higher vapor pressure as it warms up. Hence the evap system to hold the vapors.
Here i get a bit vague in my understanding. The charcoal canister can trap the vapors and maybe release them to be used in the combustion of the fuel, I think.
If we overfill, I think it is possible for the canister to wind up with liquid fuel in it which can screw things up.
Many years ago, you could by the various purge valves and such individually if they messed up. Now i think most times the large system must be replaced as an expensive unit.

My pickup throws evap codes every few years. The computer system apparently from time to time will close off the valves and allow the system to build up pressure. If the pressure holds the system thinks all is OK and return the valves to regular working order and I do not get a code. If the system does not hold pressure I get a check engine light and a code. My issue turned out to be a leaky gas cap. The engine continues to run.
My solution is to undo both battery terminals for 30 minutes to undo the code. Then I put some Vaseline on the fuel cap gasket. I also replace the O ring gasket from time to time. My pressure leak seems to be from around the gas cap.

Thing is an EVAP issue ought to throw a code.

Good luck.

 

[David Schmidt]

Mechanic said his bet is 99% fuel pump but that he is not sure...

FIRE THE PARTS CANNON

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