GM is pulling back on EVs

[Mitch03]

Read my reply and see if you’re as smug.

Precisely how many people do you know that are unvaccinated and have avoided a single covid infection over the past 3 years, despite living with , sleeping with and treating multiple Covid positive “patients”.

Out of curiosity, what level of protection would you expect for this years flu, given that your last flu shot was at least two years ago? This could be fun.

I’m more smug than ever…..thank you very much!

All of my smart friends didn’t get the vaccine. My wife and I never got Covid……never got the jab. My best friend who is 70, his wife got Covid and he slept in the bed with her and was around her the entire time never got it!!! Both never got the jab. So see it happens all the time…..I could go on and on…..

The shots are out for the so called new variant. I cant believe you aren’t in line waiting to get it.

I don’t need a shot for protection from the flu. I let my immune system do the work. I never get the flu shot or the flu……

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[sk47]

Company makes major breakthrough in solving one of the biggest issues with EVs: ‘We’ve spent over a decade in the labs’ (msn.com)

Hello; Interesting claims about a battery tech. Maybe it will prove out and be commercially viable. Maybe like so many other claims will not pan out for some reason. Too soon to know and i have no way to judge.
One thing this sort of story suggests is to wait as long as possible to get a pure BEV. One or more of these "promising" approaches to battery range and/or charging might work out.
Some may be technically possible but cost way too much. Maybe like getting more range by stuffing a lot more expensive batteries in a chassis. Some may be possible but need some very expensive components or raw materials. Some may just be companies taking advantage of easy-to-get government money for "green" projects already knowing their product ideas have flaws, just to go bankrupt at some point.

Back to my point. The BEV product lines are not set and are in flux. Buy today and in five years you have old & outdated tech. The tech will move on and that BEV might wind up like the old computers stashed in my closet.

 

[sk47]

I’m more smug than ever…..thank you very much!

All of my smart friends didn’t get the vaccine. My wife and I never got Covid……never got the jab. My best friend who is 70, his wife got Covid and he slept in the bed with her and was around her the entire time never got it!!! Both never got the jab. So see it happens all the time…..I could go on and on…..

The shots are out for the so called new variant. I cant believe you aren’t in line waiting to get it.

I don’t need a shot for protection from the flu. I let my immune system do the work. I never get the flu shot or the flu……

Hello; I do not recall the estimated percentages but do know lots of folks had the early covid strains with no to very mild symptoms. I took two of the Moderna shots early on but did not take any follow up booster shots after finding out the shots did not prevent infection.
Seems clear Burkey does not understand how natural immunity works nor how an effective vaccine works.
Let me invite Burkey to the Unofficial Off topic thread i started a while back to keep discussing Covid.

 

[AZlb5.0]

I have a friend who keeps invermectin in his house. He gave me a bottle now that the new oral chemo is really toxic to my system and it’s liquid. Take 2ml a day for 5 days and poof. Last week I started to cough and was getting a fever. I didn’t know if it was covid but I started the invermectin cycle and fever was gone within the fist 24 hrs and I feel great. COVID was the biggest catalyst for governments to concentrate power to themselves and we allowed it.

 

[Burkey]

Back to my point. The BEV product lines are not set and are in flux. Buy today and in five years you have old & outdated tech. The tech will move on and that BEV might wind up like the old computers stashed in my closet.

And yet if the tech didn’t become “outdated” that would mean that we aren’t making any progress. So, you complain that the tech isn’t up to scratch yet, and then complain that it might improve in the future.

It’s almost as if the EV can’t win in your mind.

Heres a question for you.

If the EV’s were one day capable of literally replacing the ICE in every respect, but they were being superseded every five years due to rapid improvements in tech, would you see that as a problem or a benefit?

 

[martinjlm]

Company makes major breakthrough in solving one of the biggest issues with EVs: ‘We’ve spent over a decade in the labs’ (msn.com)

Hello; Interesting claims about a battery tech. Maybe it will prove out and be commercially viable. Maybe like so many other claims will not pan out for some reason. Too soon to know and i have no way to judge.
One thing this sort of story suggests is to wait as long as possible to get a pure BEV. One or more of these "promising" approaches to battery range and/or charging might work out.
Some may be technically possible but cost way too much. Maybe like getting more range by stuffing a lot more expensive batteries in a chassis. Some may be possible but need some very expensive components or raw materials. Some may just be companies taking advantage of easy-to-get government money for "green" projects already knowing their product ideas have flaws, just to go bankrupt at some point.

Back to my point. The BEV product lines are not set and are in flux. Buy today and in five years you have old & outdated tech. The tech will move on and that BEV might wind up like the old computers stashed in my closet.

I’ll take a wait and see on Sila. Seems like they are in investor hunt mode. As for their claim “…Sila’s battery innovation features silicon anodes that can go from a 10% charge to an 80% charge in just 20 minutes. “ There are vehicles in commerce now that hit those targets.

from Genesis GV60 website…
INTRODUCING THE GENESIS GV60 CHARGING
The multi charging system enables stable and rapid charging with various charging infrastructure. When charging at 350kW with the ultra-speed charging function, the battery can be charged from 10 percent to 80 percent in just 18 minutes.

Genesis GV60 charging specs

Their biggest improvement and advantage would be in the weight reduction. That would be huge. But being in the lab for 10 years is way short of having a plan that can scale up production at a cost position to rival LG, Samsung, CATL, and other battery leaders.

And yet if the tech didn’t become “outdated” that would mean that we aren’t making any progress. So, you complain that the tech isn’t up to scratch yet, and then complain that it might improve in the future.

It’s almost as if the EV can’t win in your mind.

Heres a question for you.

If the EV’s were one day capable of literally replacing the ICE in every respect, but they were being superseded every five years due to rapid improvements in tech, would you see that as a problem or a benefit?

Battery technology goes through generational cycles far faster than vehicles. GM had already completed development of 2nd generation Ultium batteries before vehicles using 1st generation hit the dealer lots. it won’t take five years to supersede battery tech. A year or less.

 

[sk47]

And yet if the tech didn’t become “outdated” that would mean that we aren’t making any progress. So, you complain that the tech isn’t up to scratch yet, and then complain that it might improve in the future.

It’s almost as if the EV can’t win in your mind.

Heres a question for you.

If the EV’s were one day capable of literally replacing the ICE in every respect, but they were being superseded every five years due to rapid improvements in tech, would you see that as a problem or a benefit?

Hello; I am almost tempted to do a post WITH comments glorifying EV's to see if you will find fault just because it is me.
You may not be old enough to know of the VHS -SONY Betamax contest. Knew some folks with useless Sony video machines in their closet after the VHS format took hold.
If BEV's are to be successful somewhere along the line the issues will have to be worked out. With any luck the current forms of EV tech will still be supported after whatever new tech takes over. I have files from back in 2004 saved in my computer. I used a WORD program to create them back then and have a WORD program on my current computer. Not long ago I tried to open one of the old files and could not. If BEV's become as cheap as computers eventually did then having them be throw away vehicles might work.

But do not let my skepticism about BEV's stop you from buying one now. OH OH, I forget that you already skipped on owning a new BEV recently.

 

[sk47]

I’ll take a wait and see on Sila. Seems like they are in investor hunt mode. As for their claim “…Sila’s battery innovation features silicon anodes that can go from a 10% charge to an 80% charge in just 20 minutes. “ There are vehicles in commerce now that hit those targets. Their biggest improvement and advantage would be in the weight reduction. That would be huge. But being in the lab for 10 years is way short of having a plan that can scale up production at a cost position to rival LG, Samsung, CATL, and other battery leaders.



Battery technology goes through generational cycles far faster than vehicles. GM had already completed development of 2nd generation Ultium batteries before vehicles using 1st generation hit the dealer lots. it won’t take five years to supersede battery tech. A year or less.

Hello; This is my point. I recently compared BEV's to being at the toddler stage. Implying they will mature. To your comment, it seems those who wait might wind up in a sweet spot of EV tech. I may be wrong, but if/when some new game changing tech does come along it does not seem logical that companies will continue to support the old tech. I get manufacturers will have to honor remaining warranty claims till the time elapses.

 

[K4fxd]

When charging at 350kW

Does the average person know just how much power this is? Consider a charging station with 20 chargers. All chargers fast charging. This is just an insane amount of power. Where will it come from? That would be what, 20,000 windmills? maybe more? That is just one charging station. That is 7,000,000 KW being pulled from the grid.

A single metric ton of coal can produce up to 1,927 kilowatt-hours of electricity. By comparison, natural gas can only produce 99 kWh per 1,000 cubic feet, and a barrel of fuel oil can produce up to 578 kWh.
https://justenergy.com/blog/coal-consumption-in-energy/

The average all electric house pulls about 30 KWh per day.

So now lets add charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways...............

Now someone please prove to me my math is wrong, because it is not sustainable at these rates.

 

[sk47]

Does the average person know just how much power this is? Consider a charging station with 20 chargers. All chargers fast charging. This is just an insane amount of power. Where will it come from? That would be what, 20,000 windmills? maybe more? That is just one charging station. That is 7,000,000 KW being pulled from the grid.

A single metric ton of coal can produce up to 1,927 kilowatt-hours of electricity. By comparison, natural gas can only produce 99 kWh per 1,000 cubic feet, and a barrel of fuel oil can produce up to 578 kWh.
https://justenergy.com/blog/coal-consumption-in-energy/

The average all electric house pulls about 30 KWh per day.

So now lets add charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways...............

Now someone please prove to me my math is wrong, because it is not sustainable at these rates.

Hello; 350kW ought to be 350,000 watts. I looked at the link and did not see that it is per hour. Is the charger working at 350,000 watts per second or per minute or even perhaps a continuous power draw for 18 minutes. Guess I could find the capacity of the battery pack to figure it out.

Perhaps a guess is that it means per hour. Even so the plan as i understand it is for all the hundreds of millions of vehicles (personal and commercial) to be all electric at some point. 18 minutes to charge is right at 1/3 of an hour. So, 1/3 of 350,000 is still somewhere near 116,666 kWH or 116 kWH for a charge rate.
Looked at the car specs again. Battery capacity is 77.4 kWH. 80% of that is 61.92 kWH. Guess we have to take away another 10% as the add says charging from 10% to 80%, so 10% of 77.4 is 7.74 kWH. So, the charge is 54.18 kwh in 18 minutes. Numbers do not exactly add up do they??? Ought to take closer to 30 minutes. Guess i have it figured wrong. I think I may have the charge from 10% to 80% right at 54.18 kWH, but the rest is off.


I paid my electric bill yesterday. One of the cheaper months as I have not been running much heat and am not yet into the warm weather when i run fans and some AC. I used 449 kWH for 30 days, which is 15kWH per day.
So to charge a car with 54.18 in 18 minutes is more than three and a half times the electric power my house used this past month in one day. I paid $1.88 per day that month. so one charge is $6.79.
I went to the car ad to see the range but did not find it after some looking so cannot comment.

Very likely I have the numbers all wrong. But i get the point about how much power is going to be needed if all vehicles are EV. If I am anywhere close to the average and it takes over three times my daily house power usage to charge a car, then something over three times more electric energy will be needed to power up all the vehicles. I am actually on the low end of electric power use compared to most everyone I know so again my numbers are off.

 

[Burkey]

Perhaps a guess is that it means per hour. Even so the plan as i understand it is for all the hundreds of millions of vehicles (personal and commercial) to be all electric at some point. 18 minutes to charge is right at 1/3 of an hour. So, 1/3 of 350,000 is still somewhere near 116,666 kWH or 116 kWH for a charge rate.
Looked at the car specs again. Battery capacity is 77.4 kWH. 80% of that is 61.92 kWH. Guess we have to take away another 10% as the add says charging from 10% to 80%, so 10% of 77.4 is 7.74 kWH. So, the charge is 54.18 kwh in 18 minutes. Numbers do not exactly add up do they??? Ought to take closer to 30 minutes. Guess i have it figured wrong. I think I may have the charge from 10% to 80% right at 54.18 kWH, but the rest is off.

Um….not sure which data you’re looking at but….

350/60 (minutes) = A.
Multiply A (one minute) by 18. Result is 105kw consumed in 18 minutes. Yes, it’s a LOT of power as K4fxd rightly pointed out. That’s more than enough to charge the 77..4Kw/h battery (allowing for charging losses).

17 minutes would be 99.2Kw.
I imagine that the charger has a PEAK consumption of 350Kw. That’s not to say that it necessarily draws that much throughout the entire charging operation. In fact, I’d say that’s it’s unlikely to do so, given the nature of battery charging to date. Maybe they’ve made some advances there also?

 

[Burkey]

I paid $1.88 per day that month. so one charge is $6.79.

And how far would that money get you in a gasoline powered vehicle?

 

[K4fxd]

It is 350,000 watts being drawn continuous. 350,000 watts being drawn for 1 hour is 350KWh. . Figure 20 min run time per car should allow 2 cars per hour to be charged per charger.

17 minutes would be 99.2Kw.
I imagine that the charger has a PEAK consumption of 350Kw. That’s not to say that it necessarily draws that much throughout the entire charging operation.

If it is not charging at the 350Kw rate it would take longer than the 18 min?

 

[K4fxd]

The steel plant I worked at had a inductive seam welder that ran between 125 Kw and 325 Kw depending on the thickness of the steel being welded. This is a massive amount of power that required several large transformers with cooling to operate. 3 to be exact, one per phase.

When that welder was running on 1/2 inch steel you could feel the power through out the plant. I can't imagine if we had 2 or 10 welders all operating at the same time.

 

[sk47]

Um….not sure which data you’re looking at but….

350/60 (minutes) = A.
Multiply A (one minute) by 18. Result is 105kw consumed in 18 minutes. Yes, it’s a LOT of power as K4fxd rightly pointed out. That’s more than enough to charge the 77..4Kw/h battery (allowing for charging losses).

17 minutes would be 99.2Kw.
I imagine that the charger has a PEAK consumption of 350Kw. That’s not to say that it necessarily draws that much throughout the entire charging operation. In fact, I’d say that’s it’s unlikely to do so, given the nature of battery charging to date. Maybe they’ve made some advances there also?

Hello; the battery will charge from 10% to 80% of the battery total capacity. So, the charge itself is 54.18KW. I still don't see your numbers adding up either if 105 KW is consumed. That is twice the charge by my count. At 77.4 KW total for the battery is 27 KW more energy than the battery can hold.

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