GM is pulling back on EVs

[Burkey]

You "experts" no longer get to dictate at us from on high.

Let’s be real. You never did listen to the experts, unless you shopped around for an expert who agreed with what you already believed. See covid thread or science is cancelled thread (along with this thread) for examples.

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[Burkey]

Did not keep him from betting on the wrong horse on at least two major issues.

Can you name those two horses?

 

[sk47]

Cooling systems are present, are very different than ICE cooling systems and require different and less maintenance. Keep in mind that ICE cooling is as much about cooling the ICE where 40-60 percent of the energy consumed results in heat. EV cooling systems don’t have to deal with managing that amount of heat. For what it’s worth, the biggest weak point of the first generation Leaf was its battery cooling. They fixed it in the second gen.
Brake systems for EVs are significantly simplified compared to ICE. Much of the braking effort is performed by the electric motors reversing and acting as generators, simultaneously slowing the vehicle and returning energy back to the battery.
EV manufacturers already account for that in the design of the battery. They reserve or block off a portion of the battery so that the vehicle owner is prevented from deep cycling the battery. The Mach E has two battery sizes… 75.7 kWh and 98.8 kWh. The 75.7 kWh battery has a usable capacity of 72 kWh. Meaning that at the point that the owner thinks they have zero battery capacity left, they actually have 3.7 kWh of buffer that they just can’t get to. The 98.8 kWh battery has 91 usable kWh and 7.8 kWh of buffer. This extends the life of the battery, even when occasionally using fast chargers.

I just explained above why this is not the case. If the batteries were unbuffered, this would be a scenario to be concerned about. But they are buffered, so no worries. Fast charging is not an issue. Too frequent use of fast charging would be an issue, but unless people drive 300 miles a day everyday, fast charging would be rather infrequent and relegated to periodic long trip incidences. For everyday commuting and task and errand running, Level 2 charging is more than sufficient.

Hello; Thanks for basically confirming my contentions. You of course put an EV favorable spin which is fair since such is your job. I suspected the BEV's had controls to prevent unfavorable use, but did not know for sure. The rest you did address is not much different that what I posted.

I note you avoided the more important points. Those being the cost of a replacement battery being added to the overall cost of operation and the trade in value after the warranty expires with the knowledge all batteries degrade over time. I do not blame you as these are big negatives.

 

[martinjlm]

Read up a few posts you will find part of the reason posted by me.

The question has been answered many times, you just refuse to see it. There are no CURRENT mandates but they are close enough to cause people to fear the loss of ICE. Some will buy for this reason, I believe many that are returning to ICE are in this group.

Quote it for me from one of the many times it’s been answered.

 

[Burkey]

Excellent points V.S. Taxes are obviously going to come into play for consumer auto purchases. Also, the psychological affect of an impending ban cannot be understated. I do agree with M.JLM that in the U.S. earlier adopters are purchasing EV’s because it fits their needs. As ban dates approach I believe there will be many consumers pressured into purchasing BEV for the reasons you pointed out. Hopefully technology will be such that the transition will be easier for some.

I would have thought that the opposite would be true if so many people are committed to ICE vehicles. My forecast has those people buying an ICE vehicle right up to the last moment.
Do you think someone like SK47 would miss their last opportunity to buy an ICE? I think not. They’d have the car ordered and ready to collect around the final year of production.
The really wealthy might even buy a couple and put them in the garage for later on, assuming of course that EV’s and hybrids are in fact as horrible as people here keep telling us they are.

Yes, I’m crystal-balling.

 

[Burkey]

You of course put an EV favorable spin which is fair since such is your job.

Why is it his job to put a positive spin on EV’s? What IS his job?

 

[sk47]

Maybe you can answer the question that SK47 won’t (or can’t)…

What mandates are in place that force people to buy EVs in the US in 2023? People who are buying more Teslas than F-150 are buying them because that’s what they want to buy, not because they are being forced to buy them.

Hello; Again, thanks for helping with some important points. That you continue to bark at this with such an absurd response helps my case. I figure most, if not all, see through your ploy. You try to be clever about the mandates in two ways. First that they are not in effect as yet. Next that they do not make us actually buy an EV. We are not so dumb as you need us to be.
Spin way. Many of us are onto you. You attempt to paint me as less than capable "answer the question that SK47 won’t (or can’t)". Yet I can see thru your slick comments. Both by what you write and largely by the things you will not address, such as trade in value of an older EV.

 

[sk47]

I see you have your crystal ball working again.
Again, we can’t discuss what might happen “someday”, can we?

Hello; One of our top leaders, some might say the very top, has made public announcements on video with sound saying the very thing. The intention to do away with fossil fuels in on the record. Has been for some time. On top of that distinct actions have already been taken to do this very thing. I expect more to happen to be sure. No crystal ball needed when they announce the intent.

 

[martinjlm]

Hello; Thanks for basically confirming my contentions. You of course put an EV favorable spin which is fair since such is your job. I suspected the BEV's had controls to prevent unfavorable use, but did not know for sure. The rest you did address is not much different that what I posted.

That is not my job. My job is to consult to OEMs, suppliers, state, local and federal governments, industry associations, media, financial institutions and others on the current and expected state of the auto industry. This thread happens to be about EVs so that’s what I’m talking about.

I note you avoided the more important points. Those being the cost of a replacement battery being added to the overall cost of operation and the trade in value after the warranty expires with the knowledge all batteries degrade over time. I do not blame you as these are big negatives.

I believe I posted a picture showing the replacement cost for battery pack modules. Should I call you and read it to you too?
I also explained in a later post what manufactures do to minimize the long term degradation of batteries. As it turns out, there is not a lot of data on the overall replacement costs of batteries in warranty because there have not been enough warranty replacements to develop the data. Since warranties are 8 years / 100,000 miles, most batteries are still in warranty. There’s a number of Tesla Model S that have timed out on warranty. Thing is…the batteries aren’t failing. Feel free to contribute to this thread any data you have on out of warranty replacements for Tesla batteries. It might go a long way towards proving your point. I’ll wait.

 

[martinjlm]

Hello; Again, thanks for helping with some important points. That you continue to bark at this with such an absurd response helps my case. I figure most, if not all, see through your ploy. You try to be clever about the mandates in two ways. First that they are not in effect as yet. Next that they do not make us actually buy an EV. We are not so dumb as you need us to be.
Spin way. Many of us are onto you. You attempt to paint me as less than capable "answer the question that SK47 won’t (or can’t)". Yet I can see thru your slick comments. Both by what you write and largely by the things you will not address, such as trade in value of an older EV.

Damn! Caught me.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; One of our top leaders, some might say the very top, has made public announcements on video with sound saying the very thing. The intention to do away with fossil fuels in on the record. Has been for some time. On top of that distinct actions have already been taken to do this very thing. I expect more to happen to be sure. No crystal ball needed when they announce the intent.

Is that what he said or that what YOU heard? There may be a difference.

 

[sk47]

Let’s be real. You never did listen to the experts, unless you shopped around for an expert who agreed with what you already believed. See covid thread or science is cancelled thread (along with this thread) for examples.

Can you name those two horses?

Hello; I have degrees in Biology. I taught the subject for over 30 years. Even without that background some things were widely known by many people.
I understood when the first horse (natural immunity) was being dismissed that the "experts" were wrong in their assertions. I came to understand the vaccine was not functioning (second horse) over time as the narrative went from get the shots (4 or more) and be protected from disease to get the shots and you will still get the disease but may not be so ill.

 

[sk47]

That is not my job. My job is to consult to OEMs, suppliers, state, local and federal governments, industry associations, media, financial institutions and others on the current and expected state of the auto industry. This thread happens to be about EVs so that’s what I’m talking about.

I believe I posted a picture showing the replacement cost for battery pack modules. Should I call you and read it to you too?
I also explained in a later post what manufactures do to minimize the long term degradation of batteries. As it turns out, there is not a lot of data on the overall replacement costs of batteries in warranty because there have not been enough warranty replacements to develop the data. Since warranties are 8 years / 100,000 miles, most batteries are still in warranty. There’s a number of Tesla Model S that have timed out on warranty. Thing is…the batteries aren’t failing. Feel free to contribute to this thread any data you have on out of warranty replacements for Tesla batteries. It might go a long way towards proving your point. I’ll wait.

Hello; Lots of words but still did not address the trade in value of an older BEV.

 

[sk47]

Damn! Caught me.

Hello; Yet again.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; I have degrees in Biology. I taught the subject for over 30 years. Even without that background some things were widely known by many people.
I understood when the first horse (natural immunity) was being dismissed that the "experts" were wrong in their assertions. I came to understand the vaccine was not functioning (second horse) over time as the narrative went from get the shots (4 or more) and be protected from disease to get the shots and you will still get the disease but may not be so ill.

I’m not going to muddy this thread, but wow. Just wow. Imagine being proven wrong repeatedly, and STILL refusing to concede defeat. Amazing. Truly amazing.

Yes, natural immunity probably lasts longer than vaccine induced immunity. Bring back polio. Forget vaccination. Natural immunity FTW.

You accuse others of wordsmithery and yet here you are, doing exactly that. The irony is sublime.

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