GM is pulling back on EVs

[martinjlm]

I'll go out on a limb and say you probably had a fuel leak or wires shorted. Gas cars do not just spontaneously combust.

’79 Indy Pace Car 2.3L Turbo. Fuel line leaked onto the turbo.

We can go round and round on the climate. Yes I do think it is getting warmer. I do not think it is a problem. The Earth has had several warmer times and colder times than it is now. It is a natural occurrence.

There is no way a gas, at the concentration of .04%, is causing major heat holding. Some, maybe. Water vapor is the number 1 green house gas. Co2 is like trying to contain heat with a chain link fence.

Climate Change extends beyond “global warming” and includes rapidly increasing instances of “100 year storms” happening every couple of years and “once in a lifetime blizzards” happening twice in the same years. For what it’s worth, I grew up in Buffalo and slogged through the Blizzard of ‘77. My family who still live in the area say that the first blizzard that hit last year was “not quite as bad” as ‘77, but the second one was far worse.

Anyway, the issue is the chemical reactions in the atmosphere that are catalyzed by high concentrations of carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide come primarily from tailpipe and smokestack emissions.

In the Jurassic era there was a water vapor cloud in the stratosphere. This contributed to the warmer temps, not the Co2.

The concrete and buildings in the cities are adding more heat than the Co2 is trapping.

Could be. I haven’t had reason to look into that part of the dynamic. Built up cities are definitely heat islands.

Sponsored

 

[martinjlm]

I never said it was going to happen I said in order for the utilities to operate at a loss it is the only way. So either it gets nationalized or rates go up.

Those are not the only two options. Improved efficiency is also an option and is a goal of the bill.

Right now we are reducing generating capacity. Maybe some day in the future that will change. It won't be windmills and solar panels unless we want to lose our forests and farm lands.

Coal plants are being taken off-line.
Natural gas, solar, and wind capacity are being brought on line.
The target net is more generating capacity operating at higher efficiency. Win-win.

More of my tax dollars

I’ll resist the temptation of going down the rabbit hole of dumb$#1t our tax dollars are being spent on. In the grand scheme of things, I support my tax dollars being spent on improving the grid and motivating car and battery manufacturers to locate here instead of China, S.Korea, Japan, and Europe.

Yep, we are not ready for either.

Sadly, quite a ways out. At least for passenger cars. Commercial vehicles could happen in the next few years. Already in place in parts of S. Korea and Japan.

 

[K4fxd]

In the 70's I was in Wi. I remember many snow storms that left 6 to 12 inches at a time. Plus the blizzards. They were teaching in the schools about a coming ice age.......

 

[martinjlm]

In the 70's I was in Wi. I remember many snow storms that left 6 to 12 inches at a time. Plus the blizzards. They were teaching in the schools about a coming ice age.......

Six to 12 inches? I’ll take that. But 80?!?! Twice in the same winter? That ain’t normal.

I live in Detroit, but I’m still a Bills fan. When the first blizzard hit and dumped 80“ of snow on the area, the Buffalo Bills - Cleveland Browns game was moved to Detroit, so I got to see the Bills play on Sunday. Then the Bills were back in Detroit on Thursday to play the Lions in the annual Thanksgiving Day game and I went to that game, too. That was the first blizzard to hit Buffalo in ‘22. The second was worth with over 30 people dying before the city could dig out from under.

 

[K4fxd]

Six to 12 inches? I’ll take that. But 80?!?! Twice in the same winter? That ain’t normal.

It is Buffalo. They get lake effect snow.
https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/NY/Buffalo/extreme-annual-buffalo-snowfall.php
These extremes go back to 1893. Since then, the record amount of snow to fall in one day at Buffalo is 33.9 inches (86.1 centimetres) on December 10, 1995.



It's been fun. I don't think we saved the world today. Thanks for being civil. The others tend to call names then block me. You came back with reasonable factual arguments.

Have a great day Sir.

 

[sk47]

Hello; Internet goes out for part of a day and you guys have fun.

I have a study done by a well known auto company. Seems the BEV is not so clean. I guess it starts to out do a similar ICE after being driven 68,000 miles. You being in the heart of the business likely already know this.
Volvo says manufacturing an EV generates 70% more emissions than its ICE counterpart - AutoBuzz.my

Volvo_carbonfootprintreport.pdf (volvocars.com)

Hello; About the mandates. Unfortunately, you cabbaged onto the dodge that mandating the sale of only "new" vehicles being BEV's does not actually prevent us from having an ICE. A technicality at best. California alone has driven car feature adoption for decades. Not always. Sometimes there is a California version and a different 49 state version. But these versions are not so very different. Not like the difference between an ICE and a BEV.
I gather from reading the last few pages you are a climate alarmist to some degree. Explains much. As Greg's posted some time back people cannot be trusted to do what he considers the "right thing" so using force becomes OK to put us in line. Color it as you will it still boils down to force. These incentives using tax funds from all to favor the agenda of the few is an indirect sort of force. I do not have any choice about paying taxes.

 

[Burkey]

I'll go out on a limb and say you probably had a fuel leak or wires shorted. Gas cars do not just spontaneously combust.

We can go round and round on the climate. Yes I do think it is getting warmer. I do not think it is a problem. The Earth has had several warmer times and colder times than it is now. It is a natural occurrence.

There is no way a gas, at the concentration of .04%, is causing major heat holding. Some, maybe. Water vapor is the number 1 green house gas. Co2 is like trying to contain heat with a chain link fence.

In the Jurassic era there was a water vapor cloud in the stratosphere. This contributed to the warmer temps, not the Co2.

The concrete and buildings in the cities are adding more heat than the Co2 is trapping.

I eagerly await the submission of your paper, including all of the math, along with your predictions for what the climate might look like over the next few decades

I’m sure NASA will be interested to read it too.
Or, they could just defer to the math and research that’s already been done.

https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-c...ter-vapor-amplifies-earths-greenhouse-effect/

 

[K4fxd]

I eagerly await the submission of your paper, including all of the math, along with your predictions for what the climate might look like over the next few decades

I'll get right on that......

 

[HoosierDaddy]

The mandates in place in California, NY, et cetera don’t cost tax-payers a penny. The incentives come from the Infrastructure Bill and the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA).

Not paid by tax-payers? I suppose the govt just creates the money out of thin air?

Oh, yeah.

 

[Gregs24]

Fun fact
Water vapor accounts for 60-70% of the greenhouse effect while CO2 accounts for 25% —a notable difference when numbers alone are compared. Most water vapor is also cause by the sun evaporating the oceans so what’s next holding the sun financially accountable for this?

Fun fact source? Oh of course, you never provide sources just random opinions

Odd as the link from NASA posted above clearly says:

Some people mistakenly believe water vapor is the main driver of Earth’s current warming. But increased water vapor doesn’t cause global warming. Instead, it’s a consequence of it. Increased water vapor in the atmosphere amplifies the warming caused by other greenhouse gases.

So who is right? You (with your mystery source) or NASA? Err let me think for a moment

Do you even believe yourself?

 

[Gregs24]

I eagerly await the submission of your paper, including all of the math, along with your predictions for what the climate might look like over the next few decades

I’m sure NASA will be interested to read it too.
Or, they could just defer to the math and research that’s already been done.

https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-c...ter-vapor-amplifies-earths-greenhouse-effect/

I do really wonder if some on here are simply trolls or idiots. There is CLEAR data to refute what they say and yet the still just keep churning out the same drivel on thread after thread, get PROVED wrong, ignore it then rinse and repeat. Even 2 year olds are quicker at learning, 2 year old mice that is!

Can anybody really be that wilfully stupid?

 

[K4fxd]

Water vapor as a warming heat trapping gas is easily proved.

The only proof of Co2 being a heat trapping gas is through computer models. Computer models can be made to say anything. Probably some of the best climate computer models cannot accurately predict a hurricane path.

 

[sk47]

Hello; I see @martinjlm is a true believer. Of course, the climate is changing. Likely people have some layer of effect with our pollution as we have other environmental effects. Had the climate never changed before the human use of fossil fuels, then there would be less of a question. As it is we all know of past climate changes so having questions is not so "stupid" as Gregs presumes.

Then there are the recent Covid experiences where well-known things such as natural immunity were dismissed by the experts. There also was a censorship of information found to not tow the official lines. ( happened to me on here) It became hard to find contradictory and valid information. Kinda have to wonder if the climate data is similarly protected. If there is valid contrary information, can it be accessed or will it such be also be kept from us?

Then there is the data from the models and other climate alarmist letting us know that even with immediate drastic Co2 cuts to very low levels the heating will continue for 50 to 100 years. In nearly the same breath champions on here give the country emitting the most Co2 a pass from reductions for decades to come. China is building and putting into use something like two new coal fired power plants every 10 days or so. You ought to go back a bunch of pages to the per-capita explanations.

Yet the so-called solutions are to dismantle working energy infrastructure and transportation systems, then build up all new structures not yet proven at scale.
You being an insider likely understand the energy/pollution cost of brand-new equipment versus keeping a slightly less efficient but maintained vehicle that already exists on the road. The smelting of the new metals, refining of other new raw materials, recycling of some materials to make a new vehicle has an energy+ pollution cost. To junk functioning ICE vehicles just to have BEV vehicles will not be as clean as hyped.
My car is 22 years old. I bought it new. It still gets mid 30 MPG's and does not burn oil. By maintaining it over those 22 years I have avoided the energy +pollution needed to replace it at better than an average cycle rate. Someone mentioned "cash for clunkers" a few posts back. Plenty of good running vehicles junked by putting sand into an engine to be replaced with new constructed ones. Could it have been better to allow those vehicles to finish a useful life?

The inflation reduction act is a side track and an expensive one. The inflation all around is a direct consequence of that and the wasteful covid spending. Lost more than pennies out of our pockets.

 

[martinjlm]

Not paid by tax-payers? I suppose the govt just creates the money out of thin air?

Oh, yeah.

We’re talking mandates (no public funding required) versus incentives (sourced through tax-payer funding). California, New York, and Washington mandates that ban sale of new vehicles with internal combustion engines do not need funding. Nobody is giving anybody any incentives through those mandates.

 

[K4fxd]

Nobody is giving anybody any incentives through those mandates.

Not directly from the mandates, but we tax payers are subsidizing BEV cars.

Sponsored