Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[Gregs24]

Hello; Have to give you credit for an interesting attempt at deflection. I recall that episode also. Another example of information which may have been useful but did not make it past the US-THEM agendas of the time.

An analogy of sorts. When the vaccines were available and I started taking the moderna shots there were news stories about blood clots. I was already taking aspirin on a daily basis. I stopped a few days before the shots as suggested but did start back after. I upped the dose for a couple of weeks thinking the aspirin might be of value with potential blood clots. I did this on my own using my own reasoning as a guide. I told a few people and the response was ho-hum. Had I been in the oval office at the time then sides would have been drawn about taking aspirin is my take. We would have camps for aspirin and against aspirin. Much of the controversy was about who took the drug.

Regardless of the former president, the best use idea was to help folks deal with the symptoms of the illness and perhaps aid the body in it's fight. Much like ice packs to help with a high fever. A possible clinical treatment to help keep the ill in the fight. But the disputes put a stop to a decent look at the possibility.

This is a very good example of the danger of doing your 'own research' with inadequate knowledge and coming to conclusions that are flawed. I'm not actually having a go here because it is very unlikely that you would be able to reach the right conclusion as you don't have sufficient knowledge or understanding of the processes involved in coagulopathies.

You used Aspirin on your own using your own reasoning as a guide. This is very dangerous.

The clots formed (extremely rarely) post vaccination with the Moderna / AZ vaccines are not formed in the same way as for example a DVT forms. It has a lot of similarities with heparin induced thrombocytopaenia - yes that is correct, an anticoagulant induced clot!

Studies suggest link between blood clots, AstraZeneca COVID vaccine | CIDRAP (umn.edu)

If the Oval Office is taking those sort of decisions then that demonstrates the route cause of the problems. The decision is not 'pro or anti Aspirin' as neither would be understanding or treating the cause.

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[Burkey]

The irony being he caught COVID and then was NOT treated with it when hospitalised because it wasn't licensed.

More facts.

 

[Burkey]

This is a very good example of the danger of doing your 'own research' with inadequate knowledge and coming to conclusions that are flawed. I'm not actually having a go here because it is very unlikely that you would be able to reach the right conclusion as you don't have sufficient knowledge or understanding of the processes involved in coagulopathies.

You used Aspirin on your own using your own reasoning as a guide. This is very dangerous.

The clots formed (extremely rarely) post vaccination with the Moderna / AZ vaccines are not formed in the same way as for example a DVT forms. It has a lot of similarities with heparin induced thrombocytopaenia - yes that is correct, an anticoagulant induced clot!

Studies suggest link between blood clots, AstraZeneca COVID vaccine | CIDRAP (umn.edu)

If the Oval Office is taking those sort of decisions then that demonstrates the route cause of the problems. The decision is not 'pro or anti Aspirin' as neither would be understanding or treating the cause.

Excellent article. Thanks for sharing.

 

[sk47]

This is a very good example of the danger of doing your 'own research' with inadequate knowledge and coming to conclusions that are flawed. I'm not actually having a go here because it is very unlikely that you would be able to reach the right conclusion as you don't have sufficient knowledge or understanding of the processes involved in coagulopathies.

You used Aspirin on your own using your own reasoning as a guide. This is very dangerous.

The clots formed (extremely rarely) post vaccination with the Moderna / AZ vaccines are not formed in the same way as for example a DVT forms. It has a lot of similarities with heparin induced thrombocytopaenia - yes that is correct, an anticoagulant induced clot!

Studies suggest link between blood clots, AstraZeneca COVID vaccine | CIDRAP (umn.edu)

If the Oval Office is taking those sort of decisions then that demonstrates the route cause of the problems. The decision is not 'pro or anti Aspirin' as neither would be understanding or treating the cause.

Hello; Interesting twist on my comment. I was not taking heparin, never have. I had been taking aspirin for years at a low dose. Not starting a new aspirin regimen at all. I tolerate aspirin well. I went from one 81 mg each day to two 81 mg a day. Here is something else for you to twist. I hit my finger with a hammer recently. Hurt and the tip of my finger swelled. I took two 325 mg aspirin all on my own without seeing a doctor. I do that sort of thing.
Back in 2002 when I had outpatient knee surgery the doctor prescribed an oxy type for the pain. Guess what, I only took two of the pills. One the first morning after the surgery and a second pill the second morning after. I did not follow doctors orders as I knew how risky it was to depend on those pills. I just lived with the pain. This is not a world where it is wise to trust without question. So yes I do my own thinking about these things.

That you try to dazzle with some obscure reference to a drug not in discussion is noted. That I have a degree in Biology and did teach the subject including some AP classes does not make me an expert, but also does not make me uninformed. I have waded thru technical science literature in my time. One of my undergrad jobs was part time work in a college periodical library section. This was back in the late 1960's before the internet. My job was to help students find recent reference materials in bound periodicals. I was good at the job. So while I cannot dispute the put down you threw at me entirely, I do figure I could make a go at "understanding of the processes involved in coagulopathies." But hey, I get what you and the others are about when throwing out the put downs and name calling against any who post something you do not like. I even hear the tactic used on C-Spans Washington Journal in the morning episodes. Must be a standard ploy.

 

[rick81721]

The post had educational value.
It wasn’t a point of view, it was highlighting the inconsistency of certain media sources (supported by facts) and how easily led some of the follower might be. The key word there being “some”.

I‘m quite sure the opposite side are more than capable of doing the same thing.

My post was a statement of facts, not political ideology.
It is factually true that many sources in the conservative media were claiming that Trumps efforts in vaccine distribution were note-worthy.
It is equally true that SOME of those sources appear to have jumped ship.

If people want to claim that I’m playing politics when I’m stating facts they don’t like, that’s on them.

The former president has gone on the record recently, telling people that they should indeed get vaccinated, that is also a fact (that he has said this) not a point of view (although it contains HIS point of view on the matter of vaccination).
It’s entirely up to the individual to decide how they feel about it, but the fact remains that this is what the former president has said.
It’s not necessarily MY opinion.

If we’ve reached a point where we can’t share facts anymore,, in case they hurt someone’s feelings, we’re doomed.

The rules here are very clear - anyone can go on and on specifically on politics and then claim: "but I'm just posting facts". The fact is, your post was entirely politics and now is gone.

I'm actually surprised they are allowing people to argue vaccines here - other sites like this (sports, etc) are shutting all of that down.

 

[CJJon]

The rules here are very clear - anyone can go on and on specifically on politics and then claim: "but I'm just posting facts". The fact is, your post was entirely politics and now is gone.

I'm actually surprised they are allowing people to argue vaccines here - other sites like this (sports, etc) are shutting all of that down.

This is the off-topic lounge. Don't come in if you don't like it.

 

[rick81721]

This is the off-topic lounge. Don't come in if you don't like it.

It is the off topic NO POLITICS lounge. Can't anyone read??

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Interesting twist on my comment. I was not taking heparin, never have. I had been taking aspirin for years at a low dose. Not starting a new aspirin regimen at all. I tolerate aspirin well. I went from one 81 mg each day to two 81 mg a day. Here is something else for you to twist. I hit my finger with a hammer recently. Hurt and the tip of my finger swelled. I took two 325 mg aspirin all on my own without seeing a doctor. I do that sort of thing.
Back in 2002 when I had outpatient knee surgery the doctor prescribed an oxy type for the pain. Guess what, I only took two of the pills. One the first morning after the surgery and a second pill the second morning after. I did not follow doctors orders as I knew how risky it was to depend on those pills. I just lived with the pain. This is not a world where it is wise to trust without question. So yes I do my own thinking about these things.

That you try to dazzle with some obscure reference to a drug not in discussion is noted. That I have a degree in Biology and did teach the subject including some AP classes does not make me an expert, but also does not make me uninformed. I have waded thru technical science literature in my time. One of my undergrad jobs was part time work in a college periodical library section. This was back in the late 1960's before the internet. My job was to help students find recent reference materials in bound periodicals. I was good at the job. So while I cannot dispute the put down you threw at me entirely, I do figure I could make a go at "understanding of the processes involved in coagulopathies." But hey, I get what you and the others are about when throwing out the put downs and name calling against any who post something you do not like. I even hear the tactic used on C-Spans Washington Journal in the morning episodes. Must be a standard ploy.

More emotion.

Keep taking your extra aspirin and have fun with the GI bleeds.

 

[Bikeman315]

Haven't actually commented on this thread for sometime but something just happened that I thought I would share.

I am 69 and pro vaccine. My wife is 68 and was super on the fence about this one. But after looking at the pros and cons (and doctors advice) she decided to get the shot. My older daughter and her husband both got their shots. My younger daughter actually contracted Covid earlier this year. She did not require hospitalization and is now doing fine with no after effects.

Now this daughter (age 42) has some health issues including severe allergies. Because of this she does not want to get vaccinated. This, of course, is very concerning to my wife and myself especially now with the Delta variant. We agreed that we would follow the advise of our doctor who we have full trust & faith in.

Well she went to the doctor yesterday and he told advised her to hold off for now. He is very concerned about side effects with her allergies. Even went so far as to advise getting the shot in a hospital if she decided to get it. He also believed that her natural immunity would offer some defense against Delta.

So as much as I still believe every healthy person should get the vaccine (with their doctors advise) I can certainly now see that there are those who shouldn't. We just need to be more understanding of the why's before we condemn, one way or the other.

 

[CJJon]

It is the off topic NO POLITICS lounge. Can't anyone read??

Will this post be politics?

1. George Washington
April 30, 1789
March 4, 1797
2. John Adams
March 4, 1797
March 4, 1801
3. Thomas Jefferson
March 4, 1801
March 4, 1809
4. James Madison
March 4, 1809
March 4, 1817
5. James Monroe
March 4, 1817
March 4, 1825
6. John Quincy Adams
March 4, 1825
March 4, 1829
7. Andrew Jackson
March 4, 1829
March 4, 1837
8. Martin Van Buren
March 4, 1837
March 4, 1841
9. William Henry Harrison
March 4, 1841
April 4, 1841
10. John Tyler
April 4, 1841
March 4, 1845
11. James K. Polk
March 4, 1845
March 4, 1849
12. Zachary Taylor
March 4, 1849
July 9, 1850
13. Millard Fillmore
July 9, 1850
March 4, 1853
14. Franklin Pierce
March 4, 1853
March 4, 1857
15. James Buchanan
March 4, 1857
March 4, 1861
16. Abraham Lincoln
March 4, 1861
April 15, 1865
17. Andrew Johnson
April 15, 1865
March 4, 1869
18. Ulysses S. Grant
March 4, 1869
March 4, 1877
19. Rutherford B. Hayes
March 4, 1877
March 4, 1881
20. James Garfield
March 4, 1881
September 19, 1881
21. Chester Arthur
September 19, 1881
March 4, 1885
22. Grover Cleveland
March 4, 1885
March 4, 1889
23. Benjamin Harrison
March 4, 1889
March 4, 1893
24. Grover Cleveland
March 4, 1893
March 4, 1897
25. William McKinley
March 4, 1897
September 14, 1901
26. Theodore Roosevelt
September 14, 1901
March 4, 1909
27. William Howard Taft
March 4, 1909
March 4, 1913
28. Woodrow Wilson
March 4, 1913
March 4, 1921
29. Warren G. Harding
March 4, 1921
August 2, 1923
30. Calvin Coolidge
August 2, 1923
March 4, 1929
31. Herbert Hoover
March 4, 1929
March 4, 1933
32. Franklin D. Roosevelt
March 4, 1933
April 12, 1945
33. Harry S. Truman
April 12, 1945
January 20, 1953
34. Dwight Eisenhower
January 20, 1953
January 20, 1961
35. John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
November 22, 1963
36. Lyndon B. Johnson
November 22, 1963
January 20, 1969
37. Richard Nixon
January 20, 1969
August 9, 1974
38. Gerald Ford
August 9, 1974
January 20, 1977
39. Jimmy Carter
January 20, 1977
January 20, 1981
40. Ronald Reagan
January 20, 1981
January 20, 1989
41. George Bush
January 20, 1989
January 20, 1993
42. Bill Clinton
January 20, 1993
January 20, 2001
43. George W. Bush
January 20, 2001
January 20, 2009
44. Barack Obama
January 20, 2009
January 20, 2017
45. Donald Trump
January 20, 2017
January 20, 2021
46. Joe Biden
January 20, 2021
Currently in Office

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; Interesting twist on my comment. I was not taking heparin, never have. I had been taking aspirin for years at a low dose. Not starting a new aspirin regimen at all. I tolerate aspirin well. I went from one 81 mg each day to two 81 mg a day. Here is something else for you to twist. I hit my finger with a hammer recently. Hurt and the tip of my finger swelled. I took two 325 mg aspirin all on my own without seeing a doctor. I do that sort of thing.
Back in 2002 when I had outpatient knee surgery the doctor prescribed an oxy type for the pain. Guess what, I only took two of the pills. One the first morning after the surgery and a second pill the second morning after. I did not follow doctors orders as I knew how risky it was to depend on those pills. I just lived with the pain. This is not a world where it is wise to trust without question. So yes I do my own thinking about these things.

That you try to dazzle with some obscure reference to a drug not in discussion is noted. That I have a degree in Biology and did teach the subject including some AP classes does not make me an expert, but also does not make me uninformed. I have waded thru technical science literature in my time. One of my undergrad jobs was part time work in a college periodical library section. This was back in the late 1960's before the internet. My job was to help students find recent reference materials in bound periodicals. I was good at the job. So while I cannot dispute the put down you threw at me entirely, I do figure I could make a go at "understanding of the processes involved in coagulopathies." But hey, I get what you and the others are about when throwing out the put downs and name calling against any who post something you do not like. I even hear the tactic used on C-Spans Washington Journal in the morning episodes. Must be a standard ploy.

At no point did I say you took Heparin - no twist. Read it again as you have clearly not understood my post. I explained, with links, what is thought is causing the post vaccinal clots, not an obscure reference, but an actual relevant one. It was you that posted that you had taken Aspirin because of the potential benefits in preventing a clot post vaccination. The fact that you then go on to give another example of how you know better than the medical profession just confirms your astonishing arrogance, or ignorance, or both. Incidentally how are you measuring your Aspirin tolerance ?

If you understand the coagulopathy associated with COVID vaccination you better get on and publish your work as this is current research .

Basically you somehow believe that you are capable of Googling your way to knowledge of any type at the same level as people who have professional qualifications. Astonishing.

 

[Bikeman315]

It is the off topic NO POLITICS lounge. Can't anyone read??

Rick, I have browsed this thread over the last few months and have found many of the posts to be totally ridiculous while other have been very insightful. That said a discussion of anything on these forums can be turned into a political conversation with just one or two words.

I did find this definition of politics quite interesting:

Science is politics, no getting around that.

 

[CJJon]

Haven't actually commented on this thread for sometime but something just happened that I thought I would share.

I am 69 and pro vaccine. My wife is 68 and was super on the fence about this one. But after looking at the pros and cons (and doctors advice) she decided to get the shot. My older daughter and her husband both got their shots. My younger daughter actually contracted Covid earlier this year. She did not require hospitalization and is now doing fine with no after effects.

Now this daughter (age 42) has some health issues including severe allergies. Because of this she does not want to get vaccinated. This, of course, is very concerning to my wife and myself especially now with the Delta variant. We agreed that we would follow the advise of our doctor who we have full trust & faith in.

Well she went to the doctor yesterday and he told advised her to hold off for now. He is very concerned about side effects with her allergies. Even went so far as to advise getting the shot in a hospital if she decided to get it. He also believed that her natural immunity would offer some defense against Delta.

So as much as I still believe every healthy person should get the vaccine (with their doctors advise) I can certainly now see that there are those who shouldn't. We just need to be more understanding of the why's before we condemn, one way or the other.

There no reports of true anaphylaxis at my organization. We've given hundreds of thousands of vaccinations. There are very few contraindications for the vaccine - getting Covid is potentially much worse.

There are no common allergens in the vaccine and you get more mRNA from eating a boiled egg. If you do happen to be allergic to one of the few ingredients (like the preservative), don't take the vaccine.

CDC recommends that people get vaccinated even if they have a history of severe allergic reactions not related to vaccines or injectable medications—such as food, pet, venom, environmental, or latex allergies. People with a history of allergies to oral medications or a family history of severe allergic reactions may also get vaccinated.

 

[rick81721]

Will this post be politics?

1. George Washington
April 30, 1789
March 4, 1797
2. John Adams
March 4, 1797
March 4, 1801
3. Thomas Jefferson
March 4, 1801
March 4, 1809
4. James Madison
March 4, 1809
March 4, 1817
5. James Monroe
March 4, 1817
March 4, 1825
6. John Quincy Adams
March 4, 1825
March 4, 1829
7. Andrew Jackson
March 4, 1829
March 4, 1837
8. Martin Van Buren
March 4, 1837
March 4, 1841
9. William Henry Harrison
March 4, 1841
April 4, 1841
10. John Tyler
April 4, 1841
March 4, 1845
11. James K. Polk
March 4, 1845
March 4, 1849
12. Zachary Taylor
March 4, 1849
July 9, 1850
13. Millard Fillmore
July 9, 1850
March 4, 1853
14. Franklin Pierce
March 4, 1853
March 4, 1857
15. James Buchanan
March 4, 1857
March 4, 1861
16. Abraham Lincoln
March 4, 1861
April 15, 1865
17. Andrew Johnson
April 15, 1865
March 4, 1869
18. Ulysses S. Grant
March 4, 1869
March 4, 1877
19. Rutherford B. Hayes
March 4, 1877
March 4, 1881
20. James Garfield
March 4, 1881
September 19, 1881
21. Chester Arthur
September 19, 1881
March 4, 1885
22. Grover Cleveland
March 4, 1885
March 4, 1889
23. Benjamin Harrison
March 4, 1889
March 4, 1893
24. Grover Cleveland
March 4, 1893
March 4, 1897
25. William McKinley
March 4, 1897
September 14, 1901
26. Theodore Roosevelt
September 14, 1901
March 4, 1909
27. William Howard Taft
March 4, 1909
March 4, 1913
28. Woodrow Wilson
March 4, 1913
March 4, 1921
29. Warren G. Harding
March 4, 1921
August 2, 1923
30. Calvin Coolidge
August 2, 1923
March 4, 1929
31. Herbert Hoover
March 4, 1929
March 4, 1933
32. Franklin D. Roosevelt
March 4, 1933
April 12, 1945
33. Harry S. Truman
April 12, 1945
January 20, 1953
34. Dwight Eisenhower
January 20, 1953
January 20, 1961
35. John F. Kennedy
January 20, 1961
November 22, 1963
36. Lyndon B. Johnson
November 22, 1963
January 20, 1969
37. Richard Nixon
January 20, 1969
August 9, 1974
38. Gerald Ford
August 9, 1974
January 20, 1977
39. Jimmy Carter
January 20, 1977
January 20, 1981
40. Ronald Reagan
January 20, 1981
January 20, 1989
41. George Bush
January 20, 1989
January 20, 1993
42. Bill Clinton
January 20, 1993
January 20, 2001
43. George W. Bush
January 20, 2001
January 20, 2009
44. Barack Obama
January 20, 2009
January 20, 2017
45. Donald Trump
January 20, 2017
January 20, 2021
46. Joe Biden
January 20, 2021
Currently in Office

No. Don't pretend to not know the difference. It is very easy to discuss these topics without resorting to politics.

 

[K4fxd]

Let me get this straight.
Covid causes inflammation, correct?
HCQ is an anti inflammatory class drug, correct?

OK put 2 and 2 together, you can do it.

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