Prices are on the rise......

[dom418]

You all are missing one key point. Business. And what are business for? Making money, full stop.

Same thing happened with Porsche in 2011 when they stopped producing “the last GT3 with stick shift”. And where are we now in year 2021? We have a yet another new model of GT3, second time now in a row, with a stick shift, with a 4.0 liter naturally aspirated engine. It still revs to 9.0k, it still has all the aspects of the previous car.

I cannot tell you for how long I have seen similar statements for that car. And porsche listened, and they adapted. You know why? Because they are in the business of making money. Ford will do the same.

Do you understand that used cars going 30-40k over MSRP has absolutely 0 contribution to Ford’s revenue? Do you think they care or be happy that their car appreciates in value? In fact, they feel even more compelled to make more of this car as quickly as possible because every day that there isnt a new GT350 that can provide them profit, there is a used one that is being sold that steals that profit.

They will absolutely come out with another one.

My honest concern is can they keep the dimensions/weight of the car where it is and not do what Corvette did with C8, gaining some insane amount of 400 lbs of weight.

Only problem with your scenario is time. By 2030 Ford will be completely EV from what I hear. It takes time and money to develop a car like the 350. Not sure Ford is putting much R&D into ICE anymore. The writing is on the wall.

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[dom418]

Unfortunately only until the Z06 with FPC comes out next year and spoils this party....

it won’t be a manual so that kills it for me and many others.

 

[PP0001]

So we cant have this conversation without admitting our biases, right? I HOPE the values go up, of course, I own one. I think these are 100-120k cars, all day long - at least that's the arena they play in. One could argue a GT4 has much better fit and finish...and it does sound good but not like this...

I think the only thing that can really hurt the values has nothing to do with the industry catching up - it's the next Mustang. And while that's not likely going to be a "Shelby" - I think they have plenty of time to design and put out an ultimate performance Mustang as a send off to the ICE Mustang...that's at least a few years away. If you think Ford is going to miss out on that opportunity, I think you're nuts. So @PP0001 - I agree they probably aren't doing to do another Shelby but I think they will do SOMETHING. and @UnhandledException I agree they will come out with something just as or more amazing.

Agree with some of your comments but you can bet that Ford will incorporate some sort of Hybrid variant for power in their next HP Mustang and that is will not be powered soley by an ICE and could possibly even be a totally Electrified variant based on some of my conversations over the last year.

The Mustang Mach E is a great example of where Ford is heading therefore to suggest that an ICE equipped HP Mustang a few years from now is very hard to comprehend basd on my understanding as it does not make any economic sense from an investment and engineering standpoint.

 

[stanglife]

Agree with some of your comments but you can bet that Ford will incorporate some sort of Hybrid variant for power in their next HP Mustang and that is will not be powered soley by an ICE and could possibly even be a totally Electrified variant based on some of my conversations over the last year.

The Mustang Mach E is a great example of where Ford is heading therefore to suggest that an ICE equipped HP Mustang a few years from now is very hard to comprehend basd on my understanding as it does not make any economic sense from an investment and engineering standpoint.

We don't really know yet, is the thing. We don't even know how many years they can/will still make the passenger car V8. I don't see them halting production for ICE in large trucks, so in a way, the ICE will need to live on for quite a while. If the current SHelby offerings are the last push from Ford for pure ICE sports cars, then great for us...I just think they have time to do it again and based on their relative success with this last run, I don't see Ford missing out on some kind of dramatic send off to the last generation of Mustang powered purely by ICE.

One thing we can agree on - this is all just bench racing at it's core. We don't have enough information to know any of this for sure.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Agree with some of your comments but you can bet that Ford will incorporate some sort of Hybrid variant for power in their next HP Mustang and that is will not be powered soley by an ICE and could possibly even be a totally Electrified variant based on some of my conversations over the last year.

The Mustang Mach E is a great example of where Ford is heading therefore to suggest that an ICE equipped HP Mustang a few years from now is very hard to comprehend basd on my understanding as it does not make any economic sense from an investment and engineering standpoint.

This. No question, in my mind, that there will be a high-performance Mustang with some sort of electric propulsion soon. Most likely a hybrid which would allow Ford to keep a cool exhaust note, as that's such a part of the Mustang vibe, but it's going to be increasingly expensive (both in direct and opportunity costs) to develop pure NA, ICE cars with improved performance. Some sort of hybrid tech would leverage parts and knowledge from other Ford platforms, allowing them to accomplish three things at once:
1) Improve performance (better launches, more low-speed torque, smaller motor tuned for high-RPM performance)
2) Improve fuel economy (keep the Mustang relevant longer, as it will have to compete with other cars that perform just as well and are more efficient)
3) Amortize development costs for hybrid/ electric powertrains and software and tricks like launch control and so on across more vehicles.

Put me among those who think a one-off, expensive, limited-volume ICE engine like the Voodoo is unlikely - making the Voodoo very likely to be a last example of this kind. I think it is telling that even Porsche, in the 992 GT3, has not meaningfully increased the output of the flat-6 from the 991.2 GT3. They are making the car faster in other ways (double wishbone front suspension, better aero, lighter weight). We know Ford isn't afraid to kill sacred cows; after all they put a Ecoboost V6 in the GT!

The future is here. I'm not sure I'd say no to a hybrid gas/electric Mustang that can put down 750+ HP, have an AWD launch and RWD handling dynamics, and sound awesome while getting 2x the fuel mileage (totally hypothetical, but easy to imagine).

 

[Rev Happy]

I hope they eventually make another N/A FPC GT350, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. It's going to be tuff when the guy that really fought for that motor, no longer works at Ford anymore. When it was official that the 350 was going out of production, Hameedi came out and said cars like this aren't suppose to happen in a corporate world and that he was almost fired during development. Does Ford have another guy like this to really push the boundaries? Time will tell.

 

[Rev Happy]

The future is here. I'm not sure I'd say no to a hybrid gas/electric Mustang that can put down 750+ HP, have an AWD launch and RWD handling dynamics, and sound awesome while getting 2x the fuel mileage (totally hypothetical, but easy to imagine).

Think SF90

 

[wingnutt]

Not a fan of EVs at all, but can’t deny the 1400 looks like fun...

 

[sox3]

If they offered one like this I would be interested. Ford and Webasto lithium project.
900 HP

 

[wingnutt]

Ooooooo ^^^ and get this...

”In a unique twist, Mustang Lithium features a manual transmission and uses a drag-strip proven Calimer-version of the Getrag MT82 6-speed transmission with billet internals to handle the 1,000 ft.-lbs. of torque. Ford Performance half shafts and Super 8.8 Torsen® differential help supply power to the road via lightweight Forgeline wheels wearing Michelin® Pilot® Sport 4S tires.”

 

[Wildcardfox]

To your point, even though it’s a different genre of collecting/appreciating, Kobe Bryant played ball, retired, then died.

Michael Jordan played ball, retired (twice), yet is still alive.

Unfortunately, we can’t get Kobe back, but there’s a lesson in this... in the car world, the GT500 is like Michael Jordan... it occasionally goes in/out of production. The GT500’s value is subject to these in/out of production events.

The GT350R is like Kobe. It’s gone. It’s even trivial to consider that Ford would even care to bring it back given the world’s dynamics now, seeing how electrification is becoming more desirable to the masses and political agendas.

The 350R has no other way to go but up, and up by men’s of a Tesla rocket up... that is until we start getting fuel-shamed by leftists and Hollywood.

I’ll just leave the following pic for emphasis.

I read this analogy at first thinking “oh this is not the best analogy”—

But after, And with the fact of Being a laker fan, I finished reading it feeling...

 

[Rev Happy]

I read this analogy at first thinking “oh this is not the best analogy”—

But after, And with the fact of Being a laker fan, I finished reading it feeling...

Haha, same here! #24

 

[PP0001]

I hope they eventually make another N/A FPC GT350, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. It's going to be tuff when the guy that really fought for that motor, no longer works at Ford anymore. When it was official that the 350 was going out of production, Hameedi came out and said cars like this aren't suppose to happen in a corporate world and that he was almost fired during development. Does Ford have another guy like this to really push the boundaries? Time will tell.

Great question about who will continue to push the high performance boundaries at Ford?

No question that people such as Raj Nair and Jamal Hameedi both had significant influences with respect to HP vehicles in Dearborn.

After Nair was let go by Ford he quickly becoming President of Multimatic up in Canada which of course produces all the 2nd generation Ford GT's and with Jamal Hameedi heading overseas to work for Jaguar-Land Rover.

With those two key figures gone from Ford I suggest that key individuals such as Dave Pericak still is and will continue down the HP road for Ford and of course with Jim Farley now the CEO at Ford and also being a terrific car guy I would hope that he will be instrumental as well with respect to pushing boundaries.

 

[UnhandledException]

Guys,

We have hit the ceiling on some of the technologies used in these cars (engine displacement,suspension/magnetic ride,differential, steering rack, 6 piston brakes etc). Point is, to develop another car, isnt all about redeveloping all of these technologies to their next step up (which there isnt). You can see from Porsche to Ferrari to Corvette to BMW, all manufacturers use a derivation of the previous technology. Same engine, but improved timing so here is 10 hp, or same engine but individual throttle bodies so better throttle response and 2 hp. More downforce, better tires, and a little weight diet. Take the car to a track and show it improved X%, and it sells like hot cakes.

What am I trying to say? Its not going to take 10 years to make another GT350. Ford was going to stop production after 2 years. What happened? It went on for another 3+ years and they ended up producing almost 20,000 units total. Why? Because it sold, because it made them so much money. Why would they stop? What sells best? Marketing does. Image does. GT350 went a long way helping Ford’s image. Why would they stop? Makes no sense.

They’ll tune the same engine, call it vodoo 2.0, same trans/diff, better suspension and steering, bigger brakes, better tires and sell it for $5k more than the last one. And it will sell.

 

[stanglife]

Guys,

We have hit the ceiling on some of the technologies used in these cars (engine displacement,suspension/magnetic ride,differential, steering rack, 6 piston brakes etc). Point is, to develop another car, isnt all about redeveloping all of these technologies to their next step up (which there isnt). You can see from Porsche to Ferrari to Corvette to BMW, all manufacturers use a derivation of the previous technology. Same engine, but improved timing so here is 10 hp, or same engine but individual throttle bodies so better throttle response and 2 hp. More downforce, better tires, and a little weight diet. Take the car to a track and show it improved X%, and it sells like hot cakes.

What am I trying to say? Its not going to take 10 years to make another GT350. Ford was going to stop production after 2 years. What happened? It went on for another 3+ years and they ended up producing almost 20,000 units total. Why? Because it sold, because it made them so much money. Why would they stop? What sells best? Marketing does. Image does. GT350 went a long way helping Ford’s image. Why would they stop? Makes no sense.

They’ll tune the same engine, call it vodoo 2.0, same trans/diff, better suspension and steering, bigger brakes, better tires and sell it for $5k more than the last one. And it will sell.

All good bench racing but I question your certainty of the specific path - we cant really know.

But since we are making wild ass guesses:
- I don't see another FPC engine. It was unique and a little exotic but didn't come without it's pain points for Ford. They called it bespoke to the GT350 FWIW..
- I agree with the incremental changes that are possible and that it will happen in the next few years. Mach 1 is interesting but nothing to dethrone the 350, IMO.
- How can they evolve the platform? Weight reduction (Mustang Club Sport), carbon ceramic brakes, active aero, include carbon fiber wheels.
- Using a cross plane crank engine is going to be old hat at this point...and that alone might prevent any of the other features from really taking center stage.

The real question is the S650...I doubt they will have a next-gen platform that only does ICE at this point. It could support either or both ICE / EV. With S650 coming in a couple years, it's more likely that the 350 was the peak of the S550 platform but I'm curious to see what they pull out of the hat.

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