Fossil Fuels are Not the Enemy

[Jmtoast]

You just toss them in the ocean, obviously

I figured we could have John kerry use his Chartered private jet business to transport them to the moon.

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[sk47]

Hello; I take my old batteries to be recycled at the shop where I buy batteries for my car and truck. I have not checked up to see if they are truly recycled, but sort of figure they are. Hope it is not on such a dismal scale as plastic.

 

[Jmtoast]

Hello; I take my old batteries to be recycled at the shop where I buy batteries for my car and truck. I have not checked up to see if they are truly recycled, but sort of figure they are. Hope it is not on such a dismal scale as plastic.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-crack-battery-recycling-before-its-too-late/

 

[EFI]

https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-crack-battery-recycling-before-its-too-late/

The most common technique, called pyrometallurgy, involves burning them to remove unwanted organic materials and plastics. This method leaves the recycler with just a fraction of the original material—typically just the copper from current collectors and nickel or cobalt from the cathode. A common pyro method, called smelting, uses a furnace powered with fossil fuels, which isn’t great for the environment, and it loses a lot of aluminum and lithium in the process.

Can you imagine the level of pollution put out by burning millions of tons of those toxic materials? Not including the emissions of the natural gas itself.

As I've mentioned it before in the another thread, in 20-30 years there will be a slew of new environmentalists/tree huggers/politicians will be fighting hard to end the dirty environmental impact of the EV revolution.

 

[Matti777]

A friend of mine put solar panels on his home. It was $20k and doesn't generate enough power to cover all the electrical needs during winter and cloudy days. He won't live long enough to see it pay for itself if it ever does or if it needs replacing. He bought it to be off the grid and not for financial reasons. When it makes sense financially then it will be more than a fringe movement. The same applies to EV.

 

[sk47]

https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-crack-battery-recycling-before-its-too-late/

Hello; Thanks for the link. A good read. While it appears there are ways to recycle battery components with a fairly decent percentage of recovery on some parts, but not 100%. However it also appears most of the recycling is not yet setup to be so efficient nor is it clean.

A part which stood out to me is how the way batteries are currently being made without any thought to future recycling. In other words the same folks who are building the EV infrastructure currently are not doing so in an environmentally friendly manner. Such an interesting twist to the whole sad situation.

 

[sk47]

Can you imagine the level of pollution put out by burning millions of tons of those toxic materials? Not including the emissions of the natural gas itself.

As I've mentioned it before in the another thread, in 20-30 years there will be a slew of new environmentalists/tree huggers/politicians will be fighting hard to end the dirty environmental impact of the EV revolution.

Hello; well put. A trade of one evil for a different evil.

 

[Jmtoast]

Hello; Thanks for the link. A good read. While it appears there are ways to recycle battery components with a fairly decent percentage of recovery on some parts, but not 100%. However it also appears most of the recycling is not yet setup to be so efficient nor is it clean.

A part which stood out to me is how the way batteries are currently being made without any thought to future recycling. In other words the same folks who are building the EV infrastructure currently are not doing so in an environmentally friendly manner. Such an interesting twist to the whole sad situation.

Most EV batteries according to that article are just considered waste due to the cost to recycle a EV battery. Unlike your regular ole car battery.... Which is horrible. They will have to figure out a way to recycle them without the cost associated with it.

 

[EFI]

They will have to figure out a way to recycle them without the cost associated with it.

And since everything comes down to money, or lack there of when having to spend it, that cheap way to recyle them will undoubtedly do harm to the environment. Whether that is better than running gas engines outright is still up in the air, but all I hear is how clean EVs are and that is pretty far from the truth right now.

 

[Jmtoast]

And since everything comes down to money, or lack there of when having to spend it, that cheap way to recyle them will undoubtedly do harm to the environment. Whether that is better than running gas engines outright is still up in the air, but all I hear is how clean EVs are and that is pretty far from the truth right now.

Party pooper. you're just being negative. Btw, you think I could get a tax write off for off road long tube headers if I install them so I can get to 'make the planet cleaner" conferences quicker like Kerry does?

 

[EFI]

Party pooper. you're just being negative.

Sure am. When I got all these environmentalists/politicians shoving "clean EVs" down my throat, forcing me to pay more money and buy things I don't want, all for the "save the earth" reason (which is actually pretty BS) then yes I'm going to be negative about it.

If EVs were just another way to get around and were touted as such I wouldn't have any problem with it. But the way they are being marketed right now with all these climate benefits (but conveniently forgetting all the dirty aspects of it) it turns me and alot of other people off.

 

[Jimmy Dean]

Well that also means that the electric vehicle doesn't have much headroom, while the ICE can be greatly improved.

Also as mentioned before, electricity generation is only half the issue. When you add the environmental impact of making and disposing of batteries it brings the whole thing alot closer.

Look I'm not hating or doubting that the EV is the semi-short term solution to our transportation solutions, what I don't get is the whole hype that going EV is "clean, emission-free, will save the climate as is". Like somehow electricity and batteries come outta the thin blue sky and everything is peachy. That's what bothers me about the EV is the future fanatics (not you guys, but most EV owners or preachers).

not true, a perfect internal combustion engine could only achieve an efficiency of ~46%. That is thermodynamics for you. Now, I am about the biggest gas and diesel die hard there is. My daily is a 1986 Bronco w/ a 351W, and I have other street driven cars and trucks with 500+ cubic inches because....why the hell not....

but our theoretical limit for efficiency is ~46%, while real world limit is about 37%, and my old motors are closer to 28-30%

 

[TexasMetallic5.0]

So can I keep pouring my old engine oil in the ground or no?

 

[sk47]

not true, a perfect internal combustion engine could only achieve an efficiency of ~46%. That is thermodynamics for you. Now, I am about the biggest gas and diesel die hard there is. My daily is a 1986 Bronco w/ a 351W, and I have other street driven cars and trucks with 500+ cubic inches because....why the hell not....

but our theoretical limit for efficiency is ~46%, while real world limit is about 37%, and my old motors are closer to 28-30%

Hello; First I like the 351W. Rebuilt one years ago. Here is a question. First is based on how cold it got last night. Around 15 F. Not only do cold temps affect the battery but somehow a car needs a heat source for the passengers and to defrost the windows and such. How will driving around during the cold season affect EV efficiency overall? At least during the winter that ICE has good heat for my feet.

 

[EFI]

not true, a perfect internal combustion engine could only achieve an efficiency of ~46%. That is thermodynamics for you. Now, I am about the biggest gas and diesel die hard there is. My daily is a 1986 Bronco w/ a 351W, and I have other street driven cars and trucks with 500+ cubic inches because....why the hell not....

but our theoretical limit for efficiency is ~46%, while real world limit is about 37%, and my old motors are closer to 28-30%

In it's current state yes, with 99% of the heat generated going to waste. One could theoretically make use of such heat energy so instead of just being wasted into the atmosphere, that energy could be used to propel the vehicle.

Difficult and expensive to implement sure, but not impossible thus the theoritical limit of ICEs is more than 46%.

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