student debt forgiveness is back

[sk47]

NO ONE got through school on their own period. Regardless of what your ego says. Not one person here Paid cash from their pocket from their paychecks for 100% of their schooling. They got grants, scollerships, g.i. bills and so on all funded by....... tax dollars.

Hello; Technically you are correct about me. My mother did help me some with my college education. She borrowed $800 dollars to help me my first year. This was in 1965 so would be more dollars in todays money. The rest I did come by myself. Some from working actual jobs while going to school. Some from the loans I took out. I did without while in college and did without after graduating for a lot of years. None of my mothers neighbors helped her pay back the $800.

I did get loans guaranteed (backed up) by the taxpayers so in a sense that was a help I would not have had from a regular bank. No argument I could have made it without government loans. I would not have had a chance without the government loans is true. Thing I see which you do not acknowledge is my obligation to repay value for the help I got. I did take advantage of a loan and did play by the rules to have the loans dismissed. Never occurred to me that I did not have the obligation to somehow repay what I borrowed.

Painting those of us who do not agree in a negative light is a tactic. I see it and wager many others also see the tactic for what it is.

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[sk47]

That was 1965 when a dollar could buy a entire months food for 4 people .

Hello; No not quite. A dollar could by a meal for one person at a drive in restuarant. (No McDonalds around yet) I could buy enough food to feed my first wife and myself for about a week for $20 in 1966 if we cooked it ourselves. You are off by quite a bit.
Also you skip over what many have been writing in this thread. Sure the cost of college is some percentage higher now that compared to the past. Without going into all the details again it is a demand backed up with easy to get federal money.

Same sort of thing which can happen with a new car model which is is demand. The dealers jack up the price over what is normal as long as the demand exists. Question is if having that new car is worth paying the extra. The demand for a college degree remains high but the pay off from having such a degree is now in question.

I think we have established that the federal backed student loans are a sweetheart deal in the first place. Decent interest rates for a long term. Try going for a regular loan at a bank without any collateral other than your potential in the future. I do not think many would get a loan ay all. Those who do would would likely be considered a high risk and have high interest rates. Not sure the repayment could be deferred as well. Your rants about how heartless those of us are who do not favor the loan forgiveness seem to overlook these basic facts. The federal backed student loans are a good deal for many who otherwise would not have any chance to go to college at all.

 

[MIDLYFE]

https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/16/mike-rowe-i-dont-want-to-pay-for-your-useless-college-degree/

 

[DaveB]

It's just weird... we quickly go right back into the echo chamber. People not doing their research and listening to some "friend".

The free Obama phone? That program started under Regan. Not new.

50,000 forgiveness is actually a public service loan forgiveness program. Not new.

Nothing he is proposing is new. Although, we do need to investigate how his proposals worked in the states he got them from... and if they can work nationally. For example, proponents claim some of his programs will boost our GDP... bla, bla....

Truth is liberals don't think Biden is providing anything new and Republicans seem to forget everything Biden is offering is already in place in some form or another.

It is weird.

Cell phones didn't exist when Reagan was president

 

[FreePenguin]

https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/16/mike-rowe-i-dont-want-to-pay-for-your-useless-college-degree/

Truth spoken

 

[sk47]

the solutions you and others keep suggesting are all... wait for it.. wait... backed by tax dollars. So no matter what, it's tax dollars doing the work.

Hello; No this is not correct. My solution is for those who took out a "sweetheart loan" to pay that loan back themselves, not taxpayer money. Several methods have been suggested. From attaching wages to taking from tax refunds and social security.

(noted how you ignored the Sweetheart loan part)

If the government also said we are gonna pay off loans and also give back loans to the ones who paid off theirs there would be zero fight.

Hello; I can only speak for myself. I would not be in favor of the government paying me back for the old loans I had which are long discharged. The basic reason being the government is already in too much debt. The existing debt is enough to damage the economy. Just in the last year there has been massive increases in the national debt. This debt does matter. Inflation is going to be bad now without any more additional debt. Inflation is not the worst of what can happen. The spending is out of control and not something to be dismissed. So again you are not correct.

The student loan debt forgiveness was sort of like "a chicken in every pot" promise during an election. Not a sound notion economically for the country along with many other spending dreams we as a country simply cannot afford. I get that the game has been played for a long time. That because the economy has not totally crashed just yet, some believe the game can continue. I fear it may be like the fellow who fell from the 100th floor and is heard saying on the way down "so far, so good". The so called "free" stuff from the government is in no way free.

 

[sk47]

Hello; I get that cell phones were first available long before they became common. I do not know for sure when the "free" phones program actually started, but from memory it was during the 2008 to 2016 time frame. An interesting side track at best.

 

[sk47]

I think you may be out f touch with the payment terms on these sweetheart loans. when you already have 1600 a month rent ( and thats considered affordable housing), the average car payment now is getting to be 500 on top of everything else you are working two jobs to pay your 3000 a month life regular bills you are already behind on how are you suppose to pay the 600 plus a month student loans too

Hello; No I am not completely out of touch. I did mention how I had to do without back both as a student and for over ten years after I graduated college. I did without extra because rent, groceries, and all took the bigger portion of my pay. This dynamic has been the nature of life for a long time, not just recently.
You make a false claim that those of us not in favor of what yo want are all sitting pretty on easy street. Where do you think the tax dollars come from? The same people you want to foot the bill for someone else's college are also faced with all the expenses you name. Even the national debt which is on the books will at some point have to be shouldered by those citizen taxpayers. This notion that the cost will only fall onto the well to do is false.

social security.. yeah sure make sure they have nothing at retirement by taking it for loans.... and then what does a 70 year old do that might need that social security?

Hello; This is already being done. I have a modest pension from being a school teacher in a low wage state. Because I have that modest pension the social security quarters I worked out doing second and third jobs have been reduced by nearly two thirds. By that I mean the SS benefits I do qualify for because of the jobs I did are actually reduced. Not because I borrowed money and did not repay the loan that was owed. Life is tough and not always fair. But paying back what you genuinely owe is not one of the unfair things that can happen.

 

[MIDLYFE]

18 yr olds signing contracts for large sum loans is something that should be warned against, not encouraged. Stop guaranteeing the loans and tuition will come down naturally.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

18 yr olds signing contracts for large sum loans is something that should be warned against, not encouraged. Stop guaranteeing the loans and tuition will come down naturally.

I don't think the tuition will ever go down unless it gets subsidized. Not an economics expert but I believe its one of those 'too big to fail' situations.

 

[Arknsawchuck]

Out of interest, how do you happen to know the circumstance of this persons income? Is it a possibility that they may have an inheritance or some other form of income that you don’t know about?

Because "this person" told him her entire story. No guessing or mystery involved.

 

[sk47]

everybody up in arms tax payer money will help people out of debt but then have no issues with this crap https://www.ajc.com/news/nation-wor...tting-on-billions/INWJ7SJ63RAI5OJRU5QRUS6N6M/ wasting 3 billion worth of tax payer money. This is the sort of stuff people should actually be up in arms about. billion dollar business and religions collecting milions and billions more just because they can and screwing everyone. at least with student debt forgiveness real people get real help instead of companies just getting bigger bank accounts. and last time I check are not churches free from paying taxes? yet they can collect all this money from tax dollars? at least with student loan forgiveness people get back some of all those taxes they have payed over the years.

Hello; Again a wrong assumption. I for one am against many of the ways tax dollars are being spent. At first look the link you provided also seem s to be one sort of spending I do not favor in addition to the proposed student debt forgiveness. The comparison as to which is the least rewarding to taxpayers is far from the point. Both can be improper uses of taxpayer monies.

Back when the quickly put together Covid 19 spending packages were put together they were not well done. An old story. The various members of a government have the text of things on hand just waiting for some sort of situation where they can add that bit to some large bill. The idea is the small bit they throw in will not be looked at too closely if there is a pressing need (real or imagined need) in the large bill. A crisis is an idea situation. No branch of a government wants to be the "bad" guy who holds up such a "needed" bill. So lots of unrelated things get passed which would not be passed on it own merits.

To be sure a number of well to do businesses also got chunks of the covid19 stimulus money in the past rounds. If memory serves this included some colleges with very healthy bank accounts as well as some others.

So on this particular item we are in the same page. We still are at odds on the student loan forgiveness notion however. Welcome back to the discussion. Perhaps we can find other items in common of government spending we are opposed to. I have a few never brought into this thread.

 

[sk47]

Democrats unveil plan to erase $50,000 of student loan debt (msn.com)

Hello; Some want an immediate EX order to cancel 50K of student loan saying the law allows this. Apparently there is some question about the law as the administration wants congress to pass a law for around 10K.
It is getting real. Claims of how the 50K forgiveness will be good for the economy are made in the link, but not explained. I can see how it would be good for those actually getting debt forgiveness.

That the money not paid back by the borrowers who owe it will still be on the books and will add to the debt burden of all taxpayers is not addressed.
I tend to be confused about how massive borrowing to spend on such programs is a benefit to the economy. We do not have enough tax dollars from regular sources so the difference is borrowed every year to bridge the difference. We do not pay off any of the principal owed on the national debt and have not for decades, not one penny gets paid off. The debt keeps growing and all we do is pay the interest due. Even that interest is projected to be a greater and greater percentage of yearly federal spending as it has been for years. Every year the cost of paying only the interest has been growing. The fed has artificially kept the interest payments some lower than they might have been by keeping the FED rates at near zero, but that is another practice which has consequences.

I would like to see how the payoff will work long term. Seems to me the billions added to the national debt will just be adding to the ongoing interest payment which will for sure be coming due each year.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

Democrats unveil plan to erase $50,000 of student loan debt (msn.com)

Hello; Some want an immediate EX order to cancel 50K of student loan saying the law allows this. Apparently there is some question about the law as the administration wants congress to pass a law for around 10K.
It is getting real. Claims of how the 50K forgiveness will be good for the economy are made in the link, but not explained. I can see how it would be good for those actually getting debt forgiveness.

That the money not paid back by the borrowers who owe it will still be on the books and will add to the debt burden of all taxpayers is not addressed.
I tend to be confused about how massive borrowing to spend on such programs is a benefit to the economy. We do not have enough tax dollars from regular sources so the difference is borrowed every year to bridge the difference. We do not pay off any of the principal owed on the national debt and have not for decades, not one penny gets paid off. The debt keeps growing and all we do is pay the interest due. Even that interest is projected to be a greater and greater percentage of yearly federal spending as it has been for years. Every year the cost of paying only the interest has been growing. The fed has artificially kept the interest payments some lower than they might have been by keeping the FED rates at near zero, but that is another practice which has consequences.

I would like to see how the payoff will work long term. Seems to me the billions added to the national debt will just be adding to the ongoing interest payment which will for sure be coming due each year.

I still won't believe it until it gets signed into law. Can't tell you how many times Democrats or Republicans unveil these "plans" that end up getting gutted and are meaningless by the time they pass through the senate, and even then I doubt Biden would sign it. The Democrat party is still fragmented with moderates and progressives. This is just the progressive virtue signaling so they can look good.

First words from the article: A group of progressive Democrats announced a resolution on Thursday that demands President Biden use executive action to cancel $50,000 in federal student loan debt. The measure is unlikely to succeed given Mr. Biden's more moderate campaign promise of up to $10,000 in debt forgiveness via Congressional action.

 

[jtmat]

This is just the progressive virtue signaling so they can look good.

Yes...

Temp: Need to determine if throwing money can help this issue (won't solve it!). If so, how much money can help? What else short-term can help vs. throwing money at the issue? Need to see some numbers. What are the downsides?

Long-term: Find out the "real" issue(s) and fix it/them.

This comes off as lazy. No work outside of signing a piece of paper and walking to a mike. That does not cut it... need to do some real work and do it in a bipartisan manner - just like President Biden suggested.

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