My Suspension Plan What you Think

[bnightstar]

The question then becomes whether you really need more than 300 lb/in up front.

I suspect that more than 300 would be worth more at autocross where the transitions are pretty much on top of each other than out on the "big tracks".


Norm

Which is kind of what my small track is all about I sure need the 515 lbs front springs if it makes the car corner faster.

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[Hotpart.com]

Yes the 515 spring will help with turn in and late braking but what happens after turn in? The car will understeer and therefore keep you in the corner longer not allowing you to rotate and accelerate out of the corner. We do sell the canned Ohlins' kits but we don't recommend them which is why we offer custom valved Ohlins' for stiffer rear springs and softer front springs. Keep in mind road racing is drag racing from corner to corner, more speed you carry out of the corner that faster you will get to the next corner.

 

[Andrew@Lethal]

Hi All,

I want to improve my car performance over the winter.

I regularly track my car on a short 2km track here is my last best lap:



Current Mods:

Square: 275/35 Zestino 07RS (Soft 140TW) on stock PP1 wheels.
Steeda Camber Plates
FP Strut Tower Brace
Steeda Front Swaybar
Good Allignment

As you can see my car sit very good with no sign of under/oversteer so happy with balance. My goals for the winter as to add coilovers but try to keep the balance if possible.

Planned Mods:

Apex SM-10 19x11 ET26/ET52 with 295/30 Zestino 07R (Medium 240TW)
Steeda StainlessSteel Brake Lines
Steeda IRS Full Pack
Ohlins R&T 515 lbs / 800 lbs
Steeda Roll Center and Bumpsteer Kit
Steeda Adjustable Endlinks
Steeda Extreeme G-Trac Brace
KennyBrown Jacking Rails
Gloc R12/R10 brake pads

Do you think there is something I'm missing and will this setup help me improve my lap times ?

Nice driving! Check our our BMR products we sell here at www.lethalperformance.com! They make a great product that's made here in the U.S.A! https://www.lethalperformance.com/

 

[shogun32]

Keep in mind road racing is drag racing from corner to corner

maybe I'm mis-reading this statement/intent and I've been riding motorcycles for too long but I personally don't give a rat's ass about straight line speed. I want to make up time all thru the corner and 'saunter' (relatively speaking) down the straights. I guess it's the same old fight between guys who ride 2-stroke bikes who zing thru corners vs the liter-bikes that just park it at the apex and make a bunch of 'V' out of what are properly 'U'-shaped paths of travel.

 

[K4fxd]

I want to make up time all thru the corner and 'saunter' (relatively speaking) down the straights.

Get a Miata, these cars are too heavy to rely on momentum through corners.

 

[bnightstar]

Yes the 515 spring will help with turn in and late braking but what happens after turn in? The car will understeer and therefore keep you in the corner longer not allowing you to rotate and accelerate out of the corner. We do sell the canned Ohlins' kits but we don't recommend them which is why we offer custom valved Ohlins' for stiffer rear springs and softer front springs. Keep in mind road racing is drag racing from corner to corner, more speed you carry out of the corner that faster you will get to the next corner.

Can you point in the video that I share where you see that dreaded understeer :? Because not recommending something just because you don’t understand it is not exactly a recommendation. P.S my understanding is that rear springs are also replaceable (one of the benefit of coovers) so if I’m not happy with how the car handle I’d just buy different springs for the rear.

 

[shogun32]

the rear ohlins are NOT coilovers. They are divorced spring. You can swap springs regardless of 'type' - it just matters if you can find a source for the configuration you want to use.

 

[bnightstar]

the rear ohlins are NOT coilovers. They are divorced spring. You can swap springs regardless of 'type' - it just matters if you can find a source for the configuration you want to use.

True but they use adapter and run 2.5" coilover springs in the stock divorced spring location. Which mean that you have plenty of springs to chose from. HotParts are doing just that changing the valving and putting custom spring rates with it. So I'm not to much worried. And as you can see from Vorshalg video (OEM spring rates) the car is brutal.

 

[shogun32]

Can you point in the video that I share where you see that dreaded understeer

understeer is desireable, not to be 'dreaded'. we can't tell from that video's perspective (no steering inputs) where the car was pushing but I can guess. Under/Over of any significance is generally a terminal condition where you leave the track surface and auger into something like a tree or tire wall. Watch TopGear episodes and you can see plenty of examples of both.

A very good driver can handle oversteer and not wad up the car. Most drivers can't which is why understeer is deliberately engineered in.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Even your track is wider-open than most any autocross course..

Can you point in the video that I share where you see that dreaded understeer :? Because not recommending something just because you don’t understand it is not exactly a recommendation. P.S my understanding is that rear springs are also replaceable (one of the benefit of coovers) so if I’m not happy with how the car handle I’d just buy different springs for the rear.

I would start listening at about 2:00 for what sounds like a little front tire screech.

Other than that, I don't think it's realistic to be able to tell where understeer might be getting too heavy on a track that you've never driven on before (and preferably driven on many times).


Norm

 

[bnightstar]

Even your track is wider-open than most any autocross course..

I would start listening at about 2:00 for what sounds like a little front tire screech.

Other than that, I don't think it's realistic to be able to tell where understeer might be getting too heavy on a track that you've never driven on before (and preferably driven on many times).


Norm

My point was that based on this video I think the car handle insane with this Shocks and spring package. My car is not that direct for sure. I agree that a bit of understeer is desirable I understand that. I just couldn't see it in this video. My understanding is that Spring rates are easy replaceable on coilovers (one of the benefits) so there is that. My goal for the thread was to ask if I'm missing something regarding the whole package. That could help me out.

P.S. on this course Vorshlag dropped 10 sec from Base car when they put the Ohlins shocks on. Also Terry said that this from all the shocks he tested are best for the street which is also important.

 

[bnightstar]

understeer is desireable, not to be 'dreaded'. we can't tell from that video's perspective (no steering inputs) where the car was pushing but I can guess. Under/Over of any significance is generally a terminal condition where you leave the track surface and auger into something like a tree or tire wall. Watch TopGear episodes and you can see plenty of examples of both.

A very good driver can handle oversteer and not wad up the car. Most drivers can't which is why understeer is deliberately engineered in.

I agree with that but my car at the moment is really neutral in terms of handling (lot's of understeer with initial setup). And I really hope that once I switch to CoilOvers I will be able to save that neutral handling and not fight with under/oversteer.

 

[shogun32]

I don't think anyone is saying don't go with the Ohlins. Or that the as-shipped spring set is impossible to drive well. You can of course try the springs and if it works for you great, but there are alternative thoughts on the matter so you may well end up getting different springs and re-valving. Look up your local Ohlins service center and figure out what it'll cost to do a rebuild and see if you convince HotPart to divulge which shim stack Cxx/Ryy they utilize for particular spring sets.

 

[TeeLew]

It's really tough to see car balance in a video with a reasonable driver if you can't see their hands.

 

[TeeLew]

Here's the other part of the equation. You might run X springs and the other guy might run Y depending on how you drive or what's best for a particular track. You can pretty much get a balance in the car no matter what springs you use. The question is whether in achieving that balance you can turn a lap time and be consistent.

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