GT500 vs It's competitors: Is it really overprice ?

[V00D00]

Sigh. Do some reading, in the 60s street racing was so prevalent they named a model of the GT500 after its prowess.

Anyway I digress, the GT500 is not a midship car (corvette), not a midengine car (mclaren) or a rear engine (Porsche). All of those manufactures have 700hp rear drive cars, and the GT500 will be the slowest of them all, in acceleration. All good I don’t really care, I’m just trying to put things into context and reality.

Your rebuttal to 0-60 being irrelevant as far back as 1997, if not earlier, is.. the 1960s?

I just caught something here, how does a DCT do “torque mitigation”?

Do you mean traction control? That’s done by the PCM with spark cut. All mustangs have that same feature. It’s just tuned differently on the models.

Maybe you mean the actual clutch engagement vs rpm vs spark curve. Generally that’s how a “launch” is tuned. The advantage of a DCT over a torque converter or manual clutch is consistent clutch pressure of engagement per every launch, but it can’t modulate on different launches. It’s set per driving mode and launch rpm, therefore surfaces make a huge difference. Someone correct me if this logic is different for this car.

You are correct, thus making the 0-60 time seem lackluster compared to other cars.

The interesting part will be how much user end customization the car/LC strategies will have, by the driver. Although im.sure tuners will be able play around eventually

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[Darkane]

Your rebuttal to 0-60 being irrelevant as far back as 1997, if not earlier, is.. the 1960s?


You are correct, thus making the 0-60 time seem lackluster compared to other cars.

The interesting part will be how much user end customization the car/LC strategies will have, by the driver. Although im.sure tuners will be able play around eventually

It’s all good.

Nissan went on to LC7 or 8 even as the launch is a continuing evolution of tuning.

Ford can’t get it right on year one, if ever, but people seem to think so.

 

[EcoVert]

Ford can’t get it right on year one, if ever, but people seem to think so.

How can you make this statement when the car hasn't been available to even test yet. Your hatred for Ford products is quite evident.

 

[BmacIL]

I'm fairly confident that they'll make it launch as well as a front-engine, RWD, 4000 lb car could without drag radials, though if they don't make any changes to the subframe or rear LCA bushings, it'll struggle to match its potential. It's also just not going to launch like a GT-R or a GT2 or any number cars with a lot more weight on the rear axle or AWD. No amount of DCT launch control calibration is going to beat physics.

Really fast track car that'll be fast at the strip too. That's what this thing is. Any delusions about it being a great drag car off the showroom floor should be tempered. The only thing on the equipment list that's got drag in mind is the blower.

 

[Darkane]

I'm fairly confident that they'll make it launch as well as a front-engine, RWD, 4000 lb car could without drag radials, though if they don't make any changes to the subframe or rear LCA bushings, it'll struggle to match its potential. It's also just not going to launch like a GT-R or a GT2 or any number cars with a lot more weight on the rear axle or AWD. No amount of DCT launch control calibration is going to beat physics.

Really fast track car that'll be fast at the strip too. That's what this thing is. Any delusions about it being a great drag car off the showroom floor should be tempered. The only thing on the equipment list that's got drag in mind is the blower.

Thanks, you said it better than I’ve been trying to say.

 

[Darkane]

How can you make this statement when the car hasn't been available to even test yet. Your hatred for Ford products is quite evident.

My ford products that I own and owned would say different, but okay. Read Bmac’s post.

 

[shogun32]

The advantage of a DCT over a torque converter or manual clutch is consistent clutch pressure of engagement per every launch, but it can’t modulate on different launches

Considering the entire process is CPU controlled, why would you assume the clutch engagement/slip isn't being actively managed and thus subject to a variety of sensory input?

 

[Darkane]

Considering the entire process is CPU controlled, why would you assume the clutch engagement/slip isn't being actively managed and thus subject to a variety of sensory input?

It’s possible, but i don't think Ford is going that far.

Honestly? They wouldn’t want the clutch wear warranties. The clutch modulating means odd gears 1-3-5-7 would be on a weak clutch which also means 7th would be prone to slipping. That’s an assumption by me of course.

It would be cool if ford did that, but as far as I know the modulating part is the spark cut for torque management. Generally it’s not clutch friction modulation like a manual.

Like most every single dct launch control, you don’t disable traction control for the best times, as it controls power via spark.

Edit: to add, the clutch DOES modulate under normal driving conditions based on throttle input, and speed. But not on launch.

I owned a 2014 GTR, I’m quite intimate with the GR6 DCT. I even wanted Dodson to do some work for me, but the car went an a GT350 entered my life.

 

[Stuntman]

760hp GT500 Carbon Track - < $100,000
600hp GTR - >$100,000
600hp Nismo GTR - $212,000

The GT500 is a heck of a bargain for something that turns.

 

[shogun32]

It would be cool if ford did that, but as far as I know the modulating part is the spark cut for torque management. Generally it’s not clutch friction modulation like a manual.

I can't speak to Nissan's incarnation but I would be VERY disappointed in Ford if their 20,000 trans didn't fully control every phase of launch and traction/stability control with slip modulation, only resorting to spark cut once the "easy" modulations breach parameters. Drag launch mode no doubt allows more wheel spin than other modes. I would also expect Ford and their sub-contractor had enough sense to spec thicker or more plates on the odd gear clutch pack. I would further expect there is a deliberate torque limit imposed on the engine at launch so as to limit frying the clutch.

But if drag racing or vicious launches is your thing I expect you'll be buying clutch packs with some regularity.

 

[shogun32]

600hp GTR - >$100,000
600hp Nismo GTR - $212,000

The GT500 is a heck of a bargain for something that turns.

Compared to the GTR with it's own preposterous price tag, sure the GT500 is a bargain. I don't consider the GTR price in any way justified either.

 

[Darkane]

I can't speak to Nissan's incarnation but I would be VERY disappointed in Ford if their 20,000 trans didn't fully control every phase of launch and traction/stability control with slip modulation, only resorting to spark cut once the "easy" modulations breach parameters. Drag launch mode no doubt allows more wheel spin than other modes. I would also expect Ford and their sub-contractor had enough sense to spec thicker or more plates on the odd gear clutch pack. I would further expect there is a deliberate torque limit imposed on the engine at launch so as to limit frying the clutch.

But if drag racing or vicious launches is your thing I expect you'll be buying clutch packs with some regularity.

Yeah, I doubt it. I honestly can’t see it, Ford can’t pull off that kind of stuff and keep the price at 74k.

It’ll have good launch logic, but it’s limited I’m afraid.

Also, I doubt the rpm will be adjustable. Generally isn’t on a dct system. Again, because of clutches.

 

[V00D00]

Yeah, I doubt it. I honestly can’t see it, Ford can’t pull off that kind of stuff and keep the price at 74k.

It’ll have good launch logic, but it’s limited I’m afraid.

Also, I doubt the rpm will be adjustable. Generally isn’t on a dct system. Again, because of clutches.

as for RPM, Im going to assume thats the ONLY thing that can be controlled. My last one was via the cruise control stalk, from 3500-5500 in 500 rpm increments

 

[Darkane]

as for RPM, Im going to assume thats the ONLY thing that can be controlled. My last one was via the cruise control stalk, from 3500-5500 in 500 rpm increments

Yes in the BMW dct, just like the M2 (3000-3500).

You’re right, that could be a potential change. I think I said earlier it wouldn’t be a change, but it’s the probable launch change.

With your BMWs did the clamping force of the clutches here one change with rpm? It still wouldn’t modulate but I wonder if BMW dumps the clutch harder with lower Rpms and not higher as to prevent harsh engagement and chatter. By dump I mean a hard slip obviously.

 

[mmm635]

People should be comparing the likes of a GT3 to the new 500. Not some entry level model. Heck, my GT350Rs hang with GT3s at the track. However the GT3 had the edge. I believe the 500 will surpass that level of performance.

I agree. My GT350R on Hoosier's was pretty close to my 991.1 GT3 - the GT3 is easier to drive. My instructor raced 911's and a current factory driver for Ford - you put a driver behind the wheel of a Mustang that knows how to drive it, then you can get pretty close. My '16 GT350 Track Pack and '17 GT350R ran flawless at the track with combined mileage of 19,000 miles. The GT500 is gonna be a monster and has allot more to offer than HP. Ford put allot of effort into aero, suspension, and cooling.

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