Is Ford lacking on performance?

[xDUMPWEEDx]

The Subaru STI also got a "Recaro" seat option for 2018 and they look almost identical to the stock seats, kinda like the Camaro example above.

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[jake_zx2]

Jake, in the UK Gibbo basically ordered all 2018 buyers to option Magneride. It was a good command. Did you order it?

The second best £1600 you will spend.

The very best option is, without doubt in my mind, the new 10 speed.

I love it, fast and furious one minute and smooth as silk the next. God bless torque convertors.

Magride would've been excellent, but I would have had to get the performance pack, which when added with magride, is only $500 less than PP2. So then I'd have to get PP2, which would have put my MSRP over $52k, which I simply can't afford right now.

Personally, not a fan of the auto. The 10 speed is great, don't get me wrong. However, I get more enjoyment out of banging gears than I ever will out of that .1 second I save in a quarter mile. Not to mention, I'm a road racer, manual is kind of a requirement (whether traditional manual or dogbox or DCT).

For me, the best money I spent was 401a (that sweet digital cluster) and the Recaros. Everything else that I could've bought, I would've upgraded anyways

 

[Fatguy]

I just love how in a thread about Mustang performance slipping against the competition, all we are now talking about is heated and cooled seats. And even more interesting is people passionately trying to justify the whole thing.

I tossed the fact that the ZL1 1LE has these dampeners that literally give you a true race car setup - And nadda, squat, zero interest... And that is the problem as to why the Mustang is now number two.

 

[millhouse]

I just love how in a thread about Mustang performance slipping against the competition, all we are now talking about is heated and cooled seats. And even more interesting is people passionately trying to justify the whole thing.

I tossed the fact that the ZL1 LT1 has these dampeners that literally give you a true race car setup - And nadda, squat, zero interest... And that is the problem there as to why the Mustang is now number two.

That's because those dampers are complete and utter bullshit for anything except a racetrack. The ZL1 1LE sacrificed every bit of drive-ability for a faster Nurburgring lap. No thank you.

 

[Fatguy]

That's because those dampers are complete and utter bullshit for anything except a racetrack. The ZL1 1LE sacrificed every bit of drive-ability for a faster Nurburgring lap. No thank you.

That was the point of the car - Performance. My V6 Mustang is a DD. The next car (and I also drive a Buick Enclave) will be a weekend car and still looks like a Vette. But I also looked at the ZL1 in addition because some of the tech was made by people I know. But that car is for performance.

BTW: Those “dampers” are adjustable and you can drive it on city streets.

 

[howlins550]

That was the point of the car - Performance. My V6 Mustang is a DD. The next car (and I also drive a Buick Enclave) will be a weekend car and still looks like a Vette. But I also looked at the ZL1 in addition because some of the tech was made by people I know. But that car is for performance.

BTW: Those “dampers” are adjustable and you can drive it on city streets.

After driving both, my buddies have owned both. We all agree that the zl1 is better than the Vette. Yes they are adjustable, and you could daily it, but that standard ZL1 is truly good, you would only need/ want to do the 1le version if you're focused on cutting small amounts of time off what that thing can already do

 

[howlins550]

Magride would've been excellent, but I would have had to get the performance pack, which when added with magride, is only $500 less than PP2. So then I'd have to get PP2, which would have put my MSRP over $52k, which I simply can't afford right now.

Personally, not a fan of the auto. The 10 speed is great, don't get me wrong. However, I get more enjoyment out of banging gears than I ever will out of that .1 second I save in a quarter mile. Not to mention, I'm a road racer, manual is kind of a requirement (whether traditional manual or dogbox or DCT).

For me, the best money I spent was 401a (that sweet digital cluster) and the Recaros. Everything else that I could've bought, I would've upgraded anyways

I too prefer turns and road course over drag strip, but that's why I praise that damn auto so much. It is that good, on a road course I don't think you would have a single regret.

 

[jake_zx2]

I too prefer turns and road course over drag strip, but that's why I praise that damn auto so much. It is that good, on a road course I don't think you would have a single regret.

I've heard that the algorithm for the Ford 10 speed has some trouble deciding what gear to be in during cornering, and that would make me super nervous on a road course. Only automatic I would really want is a manually shifted DCT

 

[millhouse]

That was the point of the car - Performance. My V6 Mustang is a DD. The next car (and I also drive a Buick Enclave) will be a weekend car and still looks like a Vette. But I also looked at the ZL1 in addition because some of the tech was made by people I know. But that car is for performance.

BTW: Those “dampers” are adjustable and you can drive it on city streets.

You can drive a car without suspension on city streets too, that doesn't mean it's going to be in any way comfortable or compliant. All reviews of the ZL1 1LE say the same thing. Fantastic for the track, complete and utter garbage for anything else. You cannot adjust the ZL1 1LE suspension to get any type of compliance. It's going to be a spleen breaking ride on city streets. You know when magazine editors (who are known to favor performance) start complaining about the ride that you have a problem.

 

[Norm Peterson]

You can drive a car without suspension on city streets too, that doesn't mean it's going to be in any way comfortable or compliant. All reviews of the ZL1 1LE say the same thing. Fantastic for the track, complete and utter garbage for anything else.

There is no such thing as universal agreement on ride quality, not even on a scale by which we could use to make comparisons against. Not outside the ride & handling people at the OE level, anyway.

If people were as intolerant of a firm ride as you're suggesting, why is it that there's a big enough market in lowering springs to support several spring mfrs' efforts in just the ponycar niche?

You know when magazine editors (who are known to favor performance) start complaining about the ride that you have a problem.

I'm not at all sure about this any more. Editors and road testers/reviewers aren't the same people who drove traditional short-wheelbase sports cars with leaf-sprung stick axles back in the 1960's.

While I can't actually prove the following, I'm pretty sure that most reviewers feel some need to criticize every car about something, lest they be considered obvious shills for the mfr who are only allowed to speak of the good. In the mass-market magazines, perceived shortcomings in things like ride comfort and features become easy targets because the readership is no longer as enthusiast-based as it used to be. Maybe not nearly so. A little bit of knowing your audience is probably involved as well.


Norm

 

[Fatguy]

Nobody here is saying the ZL1 1LE is a daily driver. But! This is a track car that you can drive to the event so no trailer, race it with no compromise, and drive back home. That was a criticism of some here but possible in this car.

That ability to drive as close as to a race car as you can get has its appeal. Every guy with these high and wild adjustable wings on their sports cars wants that. You literally can go racing and do the cars and coffee/tailgate party thing in his car with everyone drooling over the car still with all the badging and what not.

I think that’s a compelling thing... Anyway - that’s my pitch to this crowd (performance and cars and coffee). :lol:

 

[Arthonon]

There is no such thing as universal agreement on ride quality, not even on a scale by which we could use to make comparisons against. Not outside the ride & handling people at the OE level, anyway.

If people were as intolerant of a firm ride as you're suggesting, why is it that there's a big enough market in lowering springs to support several spring mfrs' efforts in just the ponycar niche?



I'm not at all sure about this any more. Editors and road testers/reviewers aren't the same people who drove traditional short-wheelbase sports cars with leaf-sprung stick axles back in the 1960's.

While I can't actually prove the following, I'm pretty sure that most reviewers feel some need to criticize every car about something, lest they be considered obvious shills for the mfr who are only allowed to speak of the good. In the mass-market magazines, perceived shortcomings in things like ride comfort and features become easy targets because the readership is no longer as enthusiast-based as it used to be. Maybe not nearly so. A little bit of knowing your audience is probably involved as well.


Norm

Just a reference from one of the reviewers, and it sounds like there's more to it than just finding an item to list as a negative:

Edit: The URL was to start where he covers the suspension, but that got lost, so jump to the 9 minute mark



Not a negative review by any means, and I think he makes the point that you just need to know what you're looking for when you buy it.

 

[millhouse]

Norm[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry Norm, but the 1LE is a racecar with racecar suspension that compromises every semblance of ride quality. For an OEM level ride…by all accounts it flat out sucks.

As for lowering springs, people do stupid things for purely the sake of appearance. I’d venture to say a vast majority of lower spring owners only purchase them for looks alone. And even then, they have rubber bushings to quiet things down.

People live with a lot of shit for a daily driver.

Nobody here is saying the ZL1 1LE is a daily driver. But! This is a track car that you can drive to the event so no trailer, race it with no compromise, and drive back home. That was a criticism of some here but possible in this car.

That ability to drive as close as to a race car as you can get has its appeal. Every guy with these high and wild adjustable wings on their sports cars wants that. You literally can go racing and do the cars and coffee/tailgate party thing in his car with everyone drooling over the car still with all the badging and what not.

I think that’s a compelling thing... Anyway - that’s my pitch to this crowd (performance and cars and coffee). :lol:

I saw a mustang the other day driving to the track with a parachute on the back. You can drive a lot of cars to the track.

The GT350R does it right. Firm ride but still manageable.

The ZL1 1LE is just GM’s “my dick is bigger” Nürburgring car. One person that buys it will actually run it to it’s potential and the rest will be claiming….Fastest car at Nürburgring Bra!

 

[Norm Peterson]

Not a negative review by any means, and I think he makes the point that you just need to know what you're looking for when you buy it.

True.

On a ride frequency basis it doesn't look much stiffer than my '08 (a little over 1.5 Hz). I know I could daily-drive it even at my age, and he's clearly talking to an audience he knows isn't any more of a ZL1/1LE customer than he is. It may be fair that he's discouraging people from getting into something they might regret, but he's not acknowledging that there are people who would drive such a car on a much more frequent basis.

Ride harshness is a little different, and the video isn't showing anything I can pick that up from. However, this tends to diminish with the miles as shock seals lose some of their initial 'stiction'.


Norm

 

[Hack]

Most people don't want to drive or ride in a car where the shocks are metal on metal, with no softer materials used to absorb harshness.

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