Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[jake_zx2]

It would take a lot of cash to make an S197 keep up with an S550 PP1 on a road course.

Power adders may be needed as well. Any road course with some decent straights will leave that old 4.6L far behind.

Hey now, I don't know about that... I had about $5k worth of parts on my S197 (Budget big brake kit, mild suspension, wheels and tires, stock engine, stock aero), and it's capable of running PP1 times on Nurburgring. Unfortunately, my time with those parts installed was EXTREMELY limited (only ran 3 laps total with all the work done) and the only time I got to run it was in 40 degree weather in relatively annoying traffic with a passenger and full weight, but I was still just 20 seconds off the PP1 pace with a skilled driver. Better weather, better traffic, weight reduction, more time to learn the behavior and memorize braking zones, and no passenger could probably have me running pretty close to PP1 times, and nurburgring is a high speed course. Of course, that probably has more to do with the garbage tires on PP1

This is assuming we're talking 15-17 PP1... no one has had an 18 on the 'Ring yet

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[bootlegger]

Hey now, I don't know about that... I had about $5k worth of parts on my S197 (Budget big brake kit, mild suspension, wheels and tires, stock engine, stock aero), and it's capable of running PP1 times on Nurburgring. Unfortunately, my time with those parts installed was EXTREMELY limited (only ran 3 laps total with all the work done) and the only time I got to run it was in 40 degree weather in relatively annoying traffic with a passenger and full weight, but I was still just 20 seconds off the PP1 pace with a skilled driver. Better weather, better traffic, weight reduction, more time to learn the behavior and memorize braking zones, and no passenger could probably have me running pretty close to PP1 times, and nurburgring is a high speed course. Of course, that probably has more to do with the garbage tires on PP1

This is assuming we're talking 15-17 PP1... no one has had an 18 on the 'Ring yet

My 08 GT handled like a minivan. That said, it was a blast in a straight line with a few power mods. I just can’t see it coming close to the 18 without a lot of work.

 

[jake_zx2]

To the 18? Nah, probably not. But to the 15-17? Totally doable on a budget. all mine has was:
H&R springs
Eibach dampers
MM caster camber plates
MM Panhard bar
Wilwood 6p front calipers
upgraded wildwood pads (Front and rear)
StopTech slotted rotors (GT500 front, stock size rear)
motel 600 brake fluid
stainless steel braided brake lines
Apex 18x10 wheels
Federal RS-RR tires 275/40

That's all it took to be on a 15-17 GT pace at the 'Ring. I'd bet with some better tires, better dampers, weight reduction, and FBO, it would run at the 18's pace (except PP2), but that's just a guess as I have no idea what kind of times it'll run on the ring. The improved aero could help the 2018 BIGTIME on that track

 

[Bull Run]

Something for my Camaro friends

Saw some Camaros on display during my travels. They were at the Indianapolis International Airport.

 

[Bull Run]

Didn't see any Mustangs, but...

I did see a Cosworth engine on display. It's amazing that 20 years later, you can get 800HP out of DD Coyote with a SC or turbo kit.

 

[jake_zx2]

I did see a Cosworth engine on display. It's amazing that 20 years later, you can get 800HP out of DD Coyote with a SC or turbo kit.

14,000 RPM....... OH MY GODDDDDDD :love:

 

[Norm Peterson]

My 08 GT handled like a minivan. That said, it was a blast in a straight line with a few power mods. I just can’t see it coming close to the 18 without a lot of work.

I'm not sure that the '18 is all that much better than the earlier S550s.


Power is the limiting factor for the 4.6/3-valve years. But it doesn't take more than better shocks, struts, sta-bars, wider wheels with better tires, and a moderately track-oriented alignment to put up a more-than-decent showing on a technical track (Streets of Willow falls into this general category) or through the technical sections of faster ones. I am assuming that everybody out there past their second or third event is on track pads and fluid, and anybody with less track time than that won't be making good enough use of their car's performance potential at least up to the GT350 level (I do have some basis for that last bit).

I *might* have $3000 in my car between its suspension and wheels that could be considered outside what Ford would have ever supplied on an '08 GT. Plus maybe some "difference money" for the tires being wider than OE and the track pads, which are consumables anyway. Its composed behavior has been mentioned by others.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Just for comparison, with my car in the condition it was in when I set my best lap times at NJMP.

I think I've seen where the '18 was only a fraction of a second faster around the same track (not sure which one, but it might have been Streets of Willow).

To the 18? Nah, probably not. But to the 15-17? Totally doable on a budget. all mine has was:
H&R springs . . . OE
Eibach dampers . . . Koni yellows
MM caster camber plates . . . Steeda HD strut mounts
MM Panhard bar . . . OE with DIY-stiffened bushings
Wilwood 6p front calipers . . . OE
upgraded wildwood pads (Front and rear) . . . Carbotech XP10's or 12's front/10's rear
StopTech slotted rotors (GT500 front, stock size rear) . . . OE GT size
motel 600 brake fluid . . . ditto
stainless steel braided brake lines . . . nope
Apex 18x10 wheels . . . Forgestar 18x11
Federal RS-RR tires 275/40 . . . MPSS 285/35

I've since tweaked it further, but only a little (springs, finally, and a different rear bar).


Norm

 

[bootlegger]

I'm not sure that the '18 is all that much better than the earlier S550s.



Norm

You say this based on your extensive experience driving both cars?

 

[Stage_3]

This was PP1 v. 1LE.

Yeah,....I guess that's a no brainer still.
Shouldn't the 1LE be better and faster around the track than a Mustang PP1?!? I don't/wouldn't think a magazine needs to tell us that.
Hopefully Ford closes the gap with the PP2 car.

 

[Snagged]

Yeah,....I guess that's a no brainer still.
Shouldn't the 1LE be better and faster around the track than a Mustang PP1?!? I don't/wouldn't think a magazine needs to tell us that.
Hopefully Ford closes the gap with the PP2 car.

My question to this is, how does the ride quality between the PP1 and 1LE compare? Does the Mustang feel noticeably more comfortable than the Camaro or about the same? Excluding the whole belt line/visibility thing that is.

 

[Stage_3]

My question to this is, how does the ride quality between the PP1 and 1LE compare? Does the Mustang feel noticeably more comfortable than the Camaro or about the same? Excluding the whole belt line/visibility thing that is.

I'll be honest as I have no idea. I've never drove either one of them.
I don't think I would ever own a Camaro again, I think they're ugly cars. Especially the 5th gen. The 6th gen is a lot nicer, in my opinion, but still not sold on it's looks. My last one was a F Body style.
I wouldn't mind the performance of a 6th gen ZL1 though. lol

 

[Snagged]

I'll be honest as I have no idea. I've never drove either one of them.
I don't think I would ever own a Camaro again, I think they're ugly cars. Especially the 5th gen. The 6th gen is a lot nicer, in my opinion, but still not sold on it's looks. My last one was a F Body style.
I wouldn't mind the performance of a 6th gen ZL1 though. lol

Yeah, I liked the F Bodies. Those are my favorite body style of the Camaro. I really liked the last of the SS's on those years. I really liked the sound of the LT1 engines too though. A guy I went to high school with put exhaust on his LT1 and it sounded great.

 

[jake_zx2]

Driven an SS 1LE and a 2016 PP, and will say the PP is FAR more comfortable. Can't confirm with the 2018 PP, but can't imagine it would be much different

 

[Stage_3]

Yeah, I liked the F Bodies. Those are my favorite body style of the Camaro. I really liked the last of the SS's on those years. I really liked the sound of the LT1 engines too though. A guy I went to high school with put exhaust on his LT1 and it sounded great.

Nice!
I had a '99 Hugger Orange SS with white leather interior that I ordered with the options I wanted back in late '98. I used to get tons of looks and thumbs up with that car, now it's with the Roush. lol
I had the LS1 engine, obviously being the '99 year. What a great car. I wish I could have kept it and gotten the Roush Stage 3 as well, but that would have been too much $$$ for me, (price for the Roush, excise tax, insurance), and no garage space for the LS1 once the Roush got here. :( :rant:

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