Thunk, click and lurch

[CJ01]

Hoping someone with more mechanical brains than me can give me a steer here.

I've got four symptoms which I think have been there since day 0 but I was too excited to notice :

1. Fairly loud "clicking" noise when rapidly releasing the clutch pedal with engine on - even if stationary
2. Loud "clunk" when putting the car in gear, particularly first and second
3. Putting car in gear with clutch pedal depressed and handbrake off makes the car move forward slightly - this one I find the most confusing as it strongly suggests that the clutch is not properly disengaged.
4. The whole "drive" feeling "loose" when driving particularly at lower speeds - as though there was excessive play in the drivetrain somewhere.

Back to the dealer and I have to say they were very helpful. Chap came out in the car and could spot the symptoms straightaway. After a day of having the car, got called and told they were swapping the clutch out which they did and I got the car back on day 2.

Symptoms seems to still be there although I think 4 has decreased but haven't had time to really give it a test so I'm going to do that tomorrow.

I tried their demonstrator though which had the same symptoms.

I've got the following modifications which could potentially be relevant but I don't think any are.

• [FONT=&quot]Ford Racing Performance Parts Track Suspension kit [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]BMR camber bolts [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Steeda transmission bracket [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot] Steeda differential bushing system (red)[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot] BMR cradle lock out kit CB005[/FONT]

I've looked through the forum and can see there are significant differences of opinion on whether the drivetrain should be noisy or not. I saw [MENTION=13598]Gibbo205[/MENTION] wading in to debate on it in relation to clutch etc on the main part of the forum. In particular, I saw the view that the cradle lock out kit will increase noise but this isn't the suspension moving about. I can get it all when the car is still. I stand to be corrected but I cannot see that anything there is going to affect noise when the car is still.

So I'd be really interested to learn if anyone else is getting these symptoms - particularly the car moving forward slightly when the clutch is depressed and the car is then put in to first gear. The rest has probably been debated to death on the main part of the forum with no real answer but for the car to move forward when the clutch pedal is completely down - and it is completely down - that just feels wrong to me. But if this is just the way the car is and I am concerned over nothing, then fine, I'll just carry on as is.

All opinions gratefully received - they may well be fed back to the guy at the dealership to help him identify the cause if there is a problem.

Oh and Mike at Modurstang wasn't sure what it is either although thrust bearing was mentioned.

In anticipation of the usual positively helpful response - cheers all

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[Gibbo205]

Hi there

The thud whilst stationary or placing into first gear is something they all do. You can however cure this yourself by modifying your method if engaging first, clutch in for 1s, then hardly applying any pressure push into 1st it should just slot in easily and gently.

As to what causes this, throw out bearing on clutch or the stock clutch setup could be a culprit, but it is pretty damn normal on all these cars, every manual I've got into if I clutch in and slam into 1st quick, THUD and some even move forward a little.

Is it a problem? No!


The general clunkiness of the driveline when letting up the clutch fast in lower gears, again adopting your driving style can improve it, hence why some don't report the issue, I find just being smooth remedies it 90%.

- Steeda red diff inserts: These in isolation can turn the gentle thud into more a thump.
- BMR Lockout kit, again in isolation it does not do much, but in combination with Steeda red diff inserts, the shock gets transmitted through the inserts up through the cradle and because the BMR kit is like having solid bushes, what was a gentle thud is now more a clunk which means it is more audible.


Those two modifications together turn the thud to more a clunk which means it becomes more noticeable.


The clunk/thud is come from backlash in the drivetrain, Ford clearly have pretty high tolerances when they build the differentials because they have more backlash in them then my worn out 100k+ M3 differential, again something I have seen on every one. It is simple to test jack car up, take wheels off and then turn the half shafts against each other, you will replicate the clunk. Backlash is most witnessed when taking up the clutch fast especially when road and wheel speed are slightly miss-matched. Or another test just kangaroo the throttle in second gear.

Yes its annoying, but the car is fine. Trying to remedy this issue you could try:

- Uprated clutch/flywheel (expensive and unlikely to change much except maybe the thud when placing into first gear)
- Removing steeda diff inserts and BMR lockout kit or both, to go from clunking to less noticeable thud, but then you lose benefits of those parts.
- One piece driveshaft, this could help take up some of the slack, but again expensive and not guaranteed.
- Remove differential and have it re-conditions and re-adjusted so its nice and tight (within tolerances) and this will most likely cure the issue but its a lot of expensive and again not guaranteed.


I do not notice it any more, but adopting my driving style and being a little smooth on clutch engagements as pretty much solved it.

As the Americans would say "Driver Mod", it free and solves 90% of the issue.

 

[Tacklebury]

I get fairly large clunks if I press clutch in and out, I just assume it's probably runs a meaty clutch so will make some noise.

I have noticed a bad habit of mine which is driving with my hand on the gear stick, I've dialled this out of my driving as I've noticed I'm pushing the level forward when in the cruise.

Otherwise I've just adjusted the way I feed the gears in, as gibbo says it's definitely a car that likes to be finessed when changing gears, once you get the hang of rev matching and being gentle I find it very smooth. As for full beans gear changes they are still being practiced! I managed to smash into the limiter yesterday, Jesus the power drop of nearly had me eating the steering wheel!! Lesson learnt.

 

[Gibbo205]

I get fairly large clunks if I press clutch in and out, I just assume it's probably runs a meaty clutch so will make some noise.

I have noticed a bad habit of mine which is driving with my hand on the gear stick, I've dialled this out of my driving as I've noticed I'm pushing the level forward when in the cruise.

Otherwise I've just adjusted the way I feed the gears in, as gibbo says it's definitely a car that likes to be finessed when changing gears, once you get the hang of rev matching and being gentle I find it very smooth. As for full beans gear changes they are still being practiced! I managed to smash into the limiter yesterday, Jesus the power drop of nearly had me eating the steering wheel!! Lesson learnt.

They find the limiter very fast in 2nd and 3rd, I think fuel cut is around 6850rpm, should not do any harm hitting it as that is what it is there for and the engine is pretty much good for near 8000rpm anyway, Ford just de-tuned it from factory on power and rev limit on purpose.

I have no issue with full chat gear changes, they are super smooth and clunk/thump free.

 

[Tacklebury]

They find the limiter very fast in 2nd and 3rd, I think fuel cut is around 6850rpm, should not do any harm hitting it as that is what it is there for and the engine is pretty much good for near 8000rpm anyway, Ford just de-tuned it from factory on power and rev limit on purpose.

I have no issue with full chat gear changes, they are super smooth and clunk/thump free.

I'm just trying to speed my changes up, I'm very aware that dumping the clutch at the top end of 2nd and smashing open the throttle in 3rd could end up in breaking traction and the car going broadside on anything but warm dry roads. As you say, no clucking or thump for me, just if I press the clutch in and out at idle.

 

[Gibbo205]

I'm just trying to speed my changes up, I'm very aware that dumping the clutch at the top end of 2nd and smashing open the throttle in 3rd could end up in breaking traction and the car going broadside on anything but warm dry roads. As you say, no clucking or thump for me, just if I press the clutch in and out at idle.

My issue on stock tyres, was aggressively changing from 1st-2nd trying to achieve a good 0-60, the car would always brake lose big time, I had to really baby that change which was why I never did better than 5.5s 0-60 on Pzero. Even launching was hard as full power in 1st span the wheels, I did find using LC dropped my time from 5.9s down to 5.5s so clearly some spin through first gear is good within reason, but I lost a huge amount of time going from 1st to 2nd as had to baby it.

I've got the MPSS on now, car can take full throttle in first gear with no spin and I can slam 1st-2nd and it just hooks up, now down to 4.8s and thats without LC, better to come.

 

[Jimboy2]

I tried a 0-60 yesterday but it just sat there spinning lol. Which is great fun but I wanted to better my poor 5.9 attempt when I first got the car.

 

[Gibbo205]

I tried a 0-60 yesterday but it just sat there spinning lol. Which is great fun but I wanted to better my poor 5.9 attempt when I first got the car.

5.9s was all I could manage on pzero without LC, did try LC at 3000 and got 5.5s, problem as stated above on pzero I had to granny shift the 1-2 to stop car breaking lose.

Now no spin and I can do 1-2 shift very quick no issue. When your Pzero are done for, swap to MPSS, trust me you will be freaking amazed by them, in a different league.

 

[Jimboy2]

Yeah I had MPSS on my 350z so will defo go over to them when these are dead

 

[Andrewg]

I've had a clunk when I depress the shifter ever since I had BMR poly diff bushings installed and the BMR lock out kit. At first I thought it may have been just excessive play which I hadn't noticed with soft stock rubber bushings, accentuated by having hard bushings transferring NVH. The more I've driven it and the more cars I've driven other than mine, along with comments from others on forums and after speaking to Kelly at BMR have led to believe the amount of play I have isn't normal. I also notice the noise going over bumpy roads when not shifting or depressing the clutch.

Car's in for it's second service and I took the tech for a ride and he noticed it immediately. I've asked them to check it out so will report back with the findings. I have an MGW and the Steeda trans bushing as well as the clutch spring and I love the way the car shifts so i'm pretty certain it is not the clutch or transmission. My belief is its the diff which the dealer has said they will cover under warranty should they find anything.

 

[Gibbo205]

I've had a clunk when I depress the shifter ever since I had BMR poly diff bushings installed and the BMR lock out kit. At first I thought it may have been just excessive play which I hadn't noticed with soft stock rubber bushings, accentuated by having hard bushings transferring NVH. The more I've driven it and the more cars I've driven other than mine, along with comments from others on forums and after speaking to Kelly at BMR have led to believe the amount of play I have isn't normal. I also notice the noise going over bumpy roads when not shifting or depressing the clutch.

Car's in for it's second service and I took the tech for a ride and he noticed it immediately. I've asked them to check it out so will report back with the findings. I have an MGW and the Steeda trans bushing as well as the clutch spring and I love the way the car shifts so i'm pretty certain it is not the clutch or transmission. My belief is its the diff which the dealer has said they will cover under warranty should they find anything.

Clunks/noise caused by bumps is not normal, either something is lose or incorrectly installed buddy. The suspension should be pretty damn silent apart from when you hit real nasty potholes, but the only thuds/clunks should be from driveline.

 

[wildcatgoal]

All issues reported are normal. Unacceptable BS for a modern car, but normal.

 

[Gibbo205]

All issues reported are normal. Unacceptable BS for a modern car, but normal.

True, the Mondeo I had no such issues, but of course a far lowered power car.

But still, odd, I drove an Aston Martin V8 Vantage, its clutch/gearbox was even heavier than our, also the change was nowhere near as nice, felt very out of place for a sports car.

Best manual gear box I ever used was an S2000, short precise and pretty much spot on.

Our American friends really rate the upgraded shifters from MGW and Barton, not sure it fixes the general clunks and thumps though, lol.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Best manual I've driven has been in VWs. The stick shift in these cars shifts nicely (like the operation of the shifter itself) but the clutch sucks, the driveline lash sucks, and, if I'm honest, projects other sounds that are characteristic of a clutch going bad, not operating properly. Baffles me ford let that one slip but gotta come in at a low price point... I would have paid extra to have a Tremec option in the ordering process.

 

[Gibbo205]

Best manual I've driven has been in VWs. The stick shift in these cars shifts nicely (like the operation of the shifter itself) but the clutch sucks, the driveline lash sucks, and, if I'm honest, projects other sounds that are characteristic of a clutch going bad, not operating properly. Baffles me ford let that one slip but gotta come in at a low price point... I would have paid extra to have a Tremec option in the ordering process.

Even if Tremec was an option, UK/EU would not be able to select it. :(

The MT82 does have quite a nice shifting action though.

Have you upgraded the fluid? Really makes a big difference, money well spent at just £100.

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