ypena02
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TheLion
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I guess we'll find out. I'm the guinea pig for this one. Cylinder head temps are lower than with the 180 degree factory thermostat, but not as low as I'd like. If I can get them to stabilize around 175~180 that's about as good as it's gonna get.
I'm curious as to how the GT grill will affect air flow as well. It's more obstructed at the top region where the EB grill is wide open in the top area (filled in hexagons). I'm wondering if they are trying to create a negative pressure behind the grill (common mode of drawing in air). The GT grill may have the effect of pulling more air in from the bottom / mid to the top where the radiator is.
Fluid flow can some times be a bit counter intuitive. I guess time will tell between the GT grill, Mishimoto 2" thick radiator and the ram air intake. I may be bold enough to run the 93 octane stage 3 v7 from LMS now that all of my cooling systems have been upgraded (radiator, IC, plugs and intake)...I can just feel the torque pulling at my behind ;-)
I'm curious as to how the GT grill will affect air flow as well. It's more obstructed at the top region where the EB grill is wide open in the top area (filled in hexagons). I'm wondering if they are trying to create a negative pressure behind the grill (common mode of drawing in air). The GT grill may have the effect of pulling more air in from the bottom / mid to the top where the radiator is.
Fluid flow can some times be a bit counter intuitive. I guess time will tell between the GT grill, Mishimoto 2" thick radiator and the ram air intake. I may be bold enough to run the 93 octane stage 3 v7 from LMS now that all of my cooling systems have been upgraded (radiator, IC, plugs and intake)...I can just feel the torque pulling at my behind ;-)
Busser48
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That specific example "looks" but you said you had yet to see an fmic, as in all of them. I didn't know u wee saying these 3 specific ones. You would have to ask whomever runs these what their before and have coolant of cylinder head temps are
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ypena02
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That was my point lol I've asked people with those cores and they've said that they haven't noticed a difference in coolant temps which I found interesting.
Post #35
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37367&page=3&highlight=ATM
UPR Joe also runs the same unit and they claim no change in coolant temps.
LightningBlue17
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My EB is base, and one month old. the highest CHT I have seen is 192degrees. It doesn't seem to go higher than that. But then again, I have been driving like an old lady during break-in period.
Busser48
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That's why I love my ATM stepped core, prob close to same volume, but they utilize the size of like an MAP and a levels mixed. So it doesn't go that high, but has insane cooling
Busser48
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I mean I don't think they would lie about it.... Im pretty sure they would get rid of it if it was a noticeable difference, so air has to be still passing through by being forced up or something......
Juben
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Off topic a little, but if you click the Post # at the top right corner of the post, it'll open a separate window with only that post. You can then copy/paste that link and it'll only reference that specific post. You may already know, but if not, it's something you might use some time.
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TEXAS HEAT
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I noticed after I installed the GT grill the CHT stayed a little cooler while in montion, which is a good indication that airflow had improved, however tuning changes and high ambient temps have resulted in an increase in CHT when pushed. I'm definitely leaning on the 160 stat being my next mod.
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TheLion
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Some points to make:
1. A large FMIC that "blocks" the radiator isn't blocking the radiator as much as one would think. For starters, the large heat exchanger right behind the FMIC is NOT the radiator, that is the AC heat exchanger. There is about a 4 inch gab between the radiator and the AC heat exchanger, allow air to mix prior to passing through the radiator.
2. The air temperature of the air after it passes through the FMIC is what matters. It's an air to air exchanger and the amount of thermal energy required to heat air is much less than it is an aluminum block, steel sleeves and the surrounding coolant. So the temperature of the air leaving the FMIC is not going to be as high as that of the radiator. Ever touch one after running it hard? It's usually only warm at best, where the radiator will burn my skin (you sense burns at about 140F and above).
3. The levels FMIC blocks only about 30% of the cooling area most of which is already blocked by the core support.
4. As TexasHeat reported, the GT grille does exactly what I expected, it creates a vacuum by having the upper edges block, that vacuum pulls in a higher proportion of cool air from the lower portions and at a higher volume. Deleting the grill will reduce this effect and will act as the stock EB grille does.
5. The stock radiators were NEVER meant to handle higher thermal output of modified cars. Neither the base model radiator nor the PP radiator. The base model radiator is specked for a stock engine that sees mostly daily driving, maybe some 1/4 mile runs, but is meant for common thermal loads or short high thermal loads. The PP radiator assumes sustained high thermals loads on a stock engine, aka it's track ready.
Many of us are putting out more than a 100ft-lbs of torque more and almost the same in HP. We are also doing frequent 1/4 mile runs and some even track, so as LMS stated, you need to attack the additional heat from 4 different angles. It sucks, but it is what it is. Now, here's the thing, if you have a PP radiator, that extra 20% capacity will probably handle the heat reasonably well for a modified car that sees daily driving, 1/4 mile runs and auto cross, but even PP radiators would need an upgrade for track use in a modified car.
I have a base model radiator in a modified car. So far I've stayed away from my 93 octane Stage 3 v7 tune, even though LMS says I can use it with my current setup. I'm being extra cautious until I have the final piece of the puzzle, an upgraded radiator. What causes knock and super knock? Heat. Cylinder head temps absolutely are a key piece of the puzzle in battling heat.
Case in point, while driving this morning the ambient was 58F. My cylinder head temps stayed pegged at about 172F even after a 1,2,3 gear pull WOT. On hot days that usually drives the temps up very rapidly to high 180's low 190's. Why? Because the cooling capacity of the radiator is maxed out and the cooler air gives the radiator a higher cooling capacity, there's simply more air molecules passing by the fins due to the higher density. What I'm striving for is to have adequate cooling even with lower density air (aka in 90F~95F ambients). I think a better radiator combined with the LMS 160F thermostat is the key. Not going to a small FMIC.
On my stock car, my cylinder head temps were normally 185~190. They hit 205 up to 215 while idling for 5~10 minutes in 90F ambient. That was with a bone stock car, no FMIC blocking the radiator...now I have a large FMIC and a higher thermal output yet I"m seeing slightly cooler temps (primarily due to the radiator circulating sooner due to the thermostat), but not as cool as it should be with that thermostat.
1. A large FMIC that "blocks" the radiator isn't blocking the radiator as much as one would think. For starters, the large heat exchanger right behind the FMIC is NOT the radiator, that is the AC heat exchanger. There is about a 4 inch gab between the radiator and the AC heat exchanger, allow air to mix prior to passing through the radiator.
2. The air temperature of the air after it passes through the FMIC is what matters. It's an air to air exchanger and the amount of thermal energy required to heat air is much less than it is an aluminum block, steel sleeves and the surrounding coolant. So the temperature of the air leaving the FMIC is not going to be as high as that of the radiator. Ever touch one after running it hard? It's usually only warm at best, where the radiator will burn my skin (you sense burns at about 140F and above).
3. The levels FMIC blocks only about 30% of the cooling area most of which is already blocked by the core support.
4. As TexasHeat reported, the GT grille does exactly what I expected, it creates a vacuum by having the upper edges block, that vacuum pulls in a higher proportion of cool air from the lower portions and at a higher volume. Deleting the grill will reduce this effect and will act as the stock EB grille does.
5. The stock radiators were NEVER meant to handle higher thermal output of modified cars. Neither the base model radiator nor the PP radiator. The base model radiator is specked for a stock engine that sees mostly daily driving, maybe some 1/4 mile runs, but is meant for common thermal loads or short high thermal loads. The PP radiator assumes sustained high thermals loads on a stock engine, aka it's track ready.
Many of us are putting out more than a 100ft-lbs of torque more and almost the same in HP. We are also doing frequent 1/4 mile runs and some even track, so as LMS stated, you need to attack the additional heat from 4 different angles. It sucks, but it is what it is. Now, here's the thing, if you have a PP radiator, that extra 20% capacity will probably handle the heat reasonably well for a modified car that sees daily driving, 1/4 mile runs and auto cross, but even PP radiators would need an upgrade for track use in a modified car.
I have a base model radiator in a modified car. So far I've stayed away from my 93 octane Stage 3 v7 tune, even though LMS says I can use it with my current setup. I'm being extra cautious until I have the final piece of the puzzle, an upgraded radiator. What causes knock and super knock? Heat. Cylinder head temps absolutely are a key piece of the puzzle in battling heat.
Case in point, while driving this morning the ambient was 58F. My cylinder head temps stayed pegged at about 172F even after a 1,2,3 gear pull WOT. On hot days that usually drives the temps up very rapidly to high 180's low 190's. Why? Because the cooling capacity of the radiator is maxed out and the cooler air gives the radiator a higher cooling capacity, there's simply more air molecules passing by the fins due to the higher density. What I'm striving for is to have adequate cooling even with lower density air (aka in 90F~95F ambients). I think a better radiator combined with the LMS 160F thermostat is the key. Not going to a small FMIC.
On my stock car, my cylinder head temps were normally 185~190. They hit 205 up to 215 while idling for 5~10 minutes in 90F ambient. That was with a bone stock car, no FMIC blocking the radiator...now I have a large FMIC and a higher thermal output yet I"m seeing slightly cooler temps (primarily due to the radiator circulating sooner due to the thermostat), but not as cool as it should be with that thermostat.
Livernois Motorsports
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Here is the Ford cooling system diagram
Here is our tstat
Your source for information is clearly incorrect.
Justin I do not know what your setup in particular is, but you can use Lion's data to project your results.
Juben
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The Ford diagram isn't showing up.Here is the Ford cooling system diagram
Here is our tstat
Your source for information is clearly incorrect.
Justin I do not know what your setup in particular is, but you can use Lion's data to project your results.
Also, with the stock thermostat of 178°, I'm sitting right at 180° give or take a few degrees based on ambient temp and load. I was wondering if I could expect to stay around 160° with your thermostat. I didn't compare with TheLion because he has a non-PP car whereas I have a PP car. I've seen non-PP car owners say they stay around 190°-200° whereas, again, I stay right on the rated thermostat temperature.
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