Moroso Coolant Tank Design Question

[GT Pony]

I called Moroso's Tech Dept today and had a good discussion with them about their tank design. The guy I spoke with said he thinks that when the engine is running there is always positive flow through the hose connected to the rear tank nipple that I'm concerned about not having the internal submerged tube. I'm not sure if there really is positive flow from the engine block to the rear tank nipple without verifying it myself.

I think any coolant flow into the tank would be purely caused by expansion of the coolant as the system heats up. I don't think there is a constant active stream of coolant flowing through the hose I'm talking about, but I could be wrong. One way to verify would be to feel that hose while the engine was warming up to see of the hose I'm concerned about heats up relatively fast, meaning warm coolant was actively flowing through it.

As mentioned before, if there was air ingested back down that hose and into the top of the engine during cool offs, it's likely to be purged back out into the tank the next time the engine is heated up.

He also said the Moroso coolant tank for the 2011 - 2014 Mustangs has the same basic hose connections and works the same basic way as the 2015+ tanks (Coyote used in those models also). The Moroso tank design for the 2011 - 2014s Mustangs also doesn't have the internal submerged tube. They have never received any complaints that their tanks have caused issues with the Coyote cooling system.

Also, I'm willing to bet that other aftermarket coolant tanks such as the JLT and LMR don't use the internal submerged tube for the rear/top nipple either. I haven't read about any complaints on those tanks.

So, based on what I've found out I'll install the Moroso and just go with the flow so to speak. I just wanted to understand how the coolant system interacts with the surge tank and feel comfortable that a tank missing the submerged internal tube wasn't going to cause any problems. Hope this info helps.

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[Roh92cp]

I appreciate your diligence in trying to get this answered. Keep us posted on the affects of using this tank. I still have a ? As to why it would be different than the stock tank.

 

[Voodooo]

I'm pretty sure Moroso makes the tanks for shelby America also. They install them on all their cars as well. Moroso is a reputable company that's been around a long time. I'm going to buy their tank as well. Good job going through all your hard work and investment in time. I guess also that even if the tube was submerged their isn't any way it would be sucked back up into the hose. Their isn't enough psi in the tank to push coolant back up into the submerged line.

 

[GT Pony]

I'm pretty sure Moroso makes the tanks for shelby America also. They install them on all their cars as well. Moroso is a reputable company that's been around a long time. I'm going to buy their tank as well. Good job going through all your hard work and investment in time.

Thanks. I haven't seen what the Shelby coolant tank looks like, but from your comment it must look just like the Moroso but with maybe different markings - perhaps "Shelby" instead of "Moroso"?

I guess also that even if the tube was submerged their isn't any way it would be sucked back up into the hose. Their isn't enough psi in the tank to push coolant back up into the submerged line.

Once the coolant system is hot, the whole system is basically at the same pressure as controlled by the pressure cap (ie, 21 PSI). But once the engine is shut off and the system cools back down, all the expanded coolant needs to flow out of the tank and back into the coolant system. The pressure cap must also vent to allow atmospheric pressure back into the tank, otherwise the system would be under vacuum if it only vented out when hot and not vented atm pressure back when cooling down.

What's strange is the hose going into the front of the tank (blue arrow) connects to the top driver's side of the radiator (it's high point), but it doesn't have any submerged tube inside the expansion tank.

I traced the hose down that connects to the rear nipple on the tank, and it's tied into a fitting that the large top radiator hose connects to on the engine side. So that looks to be the high point of the cooling system on the engine. That point looks to be about the same level as the radiator's high point. In the same photo, you can see the orange coolant in the top of the internal tube (red arrow).

Cooling systems are usually designed to have the water pump flow hot coolant from the engine block, through the top hose of the radiator to cool through the radiator, and then out the bottom hose of the radiator back to the engine block. So there will be some delta pressure going on in the cooling system from the water pump moving coolant through the system. Based on the flow path of coolant, that should mean the T fitting that the rear tank hose connects to should have some slight pressure making coolant flow through that rear hose and into the tank, thereby keeping that hose full of coolant at all times.

If it's true that there is flow in that rear hose from the engine to the tank, then that rear hose should heat up fairy quickly as the coolant system heats up. If it doesn't heat up fairly quick, then there isn't any flow in that hose, or else the system might be trying to suck coolant out of the tank and into the engine due to the venturi effect of flowing coolant in the large main radiator hose where the hose connects to the high point on the engine side. One way to determine that would be to feel how that hose heats up on the OEM tank, and then again on the Moroso tank after installation to compare.

And yes, I must be bored because I'm making this into major "science project".

 

[Voodooo]

Yes the shelby America tanks have the shelby logo on them. But made by Moroso.

 

[GT Pony]

I had a chance to take my GT out today, and did some more investigation on the cooling system and what's going on with it and how the coolant tank fits into the over-all design. So thought I'd update everyone here who's interested. This is a little long and detailed, but should show what's going on.

Refer to the photo in Post #34. There are 3 hoses connected to the expansion tank. The photo shows a small hose on the front side (blue arrow) and a small hose on the rear side (red arrow). There is also a much larger hose connected to the very bottom of the tank. I'll refer to these hoses as "front", "rear" & "bottom" when describing what's going on below.

The rear hose runs from the expansion tank to a vertical nipple that is on top of the thermostat housing on top of the engine block. There is an internal tube built inside the expansion tank that is submerged into the coolant to always keep that hose full of coolant.

The front hose runs from the expansion tank to the top corner of the radiator on the driver's side. There is no internal tube inside the tank for this hose. It vents directly into the top air volume of the tank.

The bottom hose runs from the bottom of the expansion tank to the inlet side of the water pump. This hose is always filled with coolant.

I started the engine, and as it warmed up I felt the rear hose and the bottom hose for signs of heat. After just a few minutes I could feel some heat starting to build in both of those hoses. After about 5~8 minutes, it was really easy to feel the heat. There was no heat in the front hose yet.

So, what's going on is there is some active flow going on through the coolant tank any time the engine is running. The water pump is drawing coolant from the tank bottom, and the rear hose is getting some flow from the thermostat housing - which has a slightly higher pressure compared to the inlet of the water pump. No heat is going into the radiator yet (top radiator hose was cold) because the thermostat hasn't opened up.

What this means is that with the Moroso tank (or any other aftermarket tank built similar) without the submerged inner tube for the rear hose, there should always be some active flow in the rear hose going into the tank. Only thing not having a submerged tube inside the tank might cause is a little air being sucked back down that rear hose after the engine is shut off and the cooling system cools all the way back to room temperature. Since that hose is relatively long, I doubt any air would actually get all the way down to the engine block at the thermostat housing. The next time the engine is started, any air in that hose will be purged back out into the expansion tank.

So, based on what I've seen with this little test, the Moroso or similar tanks without the internal submerged tube shouldn't cause any issues with the cooling system.

 

[AV80R]

Yes the shelby America tanks have the shelby logo on them. But made by Moroso.

The Shelby tank comes from C&R Racing. I bought one directly from Shelby, and it was drop shipped from C&R. You can buy the same tank from C&R, minus the Shelby logo, for $50 less. Of note, the rear connection is on the opposite side from the factory tank so you have to lengthen or replace the rear hose.

https://www.crracing.com/mustang_gt_2015_engine_coolant_reservoir_bare_aluminum

Why Choose C&R


C&R Racing has designed and built some of the finest racing components for the top professional teams in motorsports. For the past 25 years, every NASCAR Cup Champion, Indy 500 winner, and Daytona 500 winner have had something on their car from C&R, as have many other race winning cars. Our highly skilled personnel have experienced winning and losing races; knowing what makes both happen sets us apart from our competitors.


Together with PWR, there isn't any company on our level in terms of engineering, cutting edge design, and expertise when it comes to cooling the fastest race cars in the world. Whether it's F1, World Rally, Indy Car, NASCAR, Off Road, or sports car racing we are the go-to company of the champions.


C&R puts the same level of engineering and manufacturing into its Aftermarket Product as it does its racing and custom products. No other cooling manufacturer can offer this level of service and reliability. You can buy less expensive but you can't buy anything equal to or better.

 

[Voodooo]

I have the Shelby tank sitting in my shop still in the box with the Shelby logo. I havent used it and decided not to. It's brand new if anyone's interested shoot me a PM. I was told they were made by moroso and it looks identical to the moroso tank. Either way it's a quality piece.

 

[AV80R]

I have the Shelby tank sitting in my shop still in the box with the Shelby logo. I havent used it and decided not to. It's brand new if anyone's interested shoot me a PM. I was told they were made by moroso and it looks identical to the moroso tank. Either way it's a quality piece.

I'd take you up on it if I hadn't already gotten mine!

I had always heard that Moroso built them as well...so I was surprised to see the packing slip from C&R. Maybe they changed suppliers somewhere along the way. The one I have looks nothing like the Moroso but it has the same flawless welds. And, yes, the quality second to none.
:cheers:

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