Take note, Ford....

[TomcatDriver]

Go get that BMW then come talk about build quality, you've never owned one because if you did you wouldn't be saying that. A $6k bill is nothing with a Beamer, you might have just gotten the suspension retuned, a couple of parts replaced. Lease BMW's don't buy one.

On the other hand I agree about Ford dealer's attitude, it's important and I Ford needs to work on it. Ford never saw my Mustang GT after i drove it off the lot. I used to take my F150 in there and it seemed if they fixed one issue they created three more, perhaps coincidence but when I started taking it to a well-recommended mechanic the issues stopped.

I've owned two, taken to high mileage (>150K). If you drive into the dealer and say "fix it" prepare to take it in the shorts (but they do give you nice loaners and have warm cookies in the waiting area). However if you are actually willing to do some minimal maintenance/repairs on your own they are surprisingly easy to work on. Like all cars home maintainability gets more and more difficult every year, but can still be done.

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[Spartan]

Nah - before GM started unloading Camaros on the rental market, they had nearly a 50% take rate on the V8 - in comparison in the U.S. the V8 Mustang take rate is far less. It's just my opinion however people that buy the non-V8 cars are looking for something fun to drive as an everyday car - not track cars. The Camaro is tiny, actually a false rear seat and the trunk is sad, it is not a good car for anyone with needs to use the back seat to seat actual human beings. Yes GM will get more sales by dropping the price, however comparison shoppers are going to look at a Mustang and for the same price they'll get a loaded non-premium Mustang for the same as that bare-bones Camaro and the Mustang will seat four. I don't see Camaro sales ever rivaling the S550 sales until a redesign puts a rear seat that will accommodate actual humans with heads and legs and a trunk that can handle luggage for two (they current one can't.)

Oh it's terrible in the back seat and the trunk/entry for the trunk is terrible. They missed the ball on this gen. They really need to rethink their design philosophy and lower that belt line and make the back seat usable.

I can see GM going with AWD as the next big jump in their Camaros.

 

[saf1]

The Mustang is not now, and never was, a "Muscle Car".

For the love of God, please get that straight.

What would you call the Boss 429? Or any of the others that they stuffed the 428 CJ's in? They have been, and always will be, a muscle car unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying (which very well could be ;) ).

 

[68fbjjz109]

I'd like to see a true "base" model like you could get in the 90s. Manual windows, mirrors, locks, etc.

If you want a stripped down mustang without AC, crank windows, etc Ford makes one.

As for that being a mass produced car you can buy off a lot, no chance. The market has changed (some time ago..). People like and now expect power windows (among other features) from EVERY car that is available for sale.

If Ford were to start selling 1991 base-model spec mustangs they would loose sales on the nicer equipped cars as the car would be deemed cheap, crap, etc.

Its 2017 people like their creature comforts.

I have read that current power window systems are lighter than the old, crank mechanisms......but I have no clue if that is true in the case of the Mustang. I special ordered my '15 as basic as I could, with the options I wanted:
- Base GT
- Performance Package
- Recaro Seats

I agree that the majority of the buying public wants the creature comforts and gadgets.......hence '18 GT pricing exceeding $50K, with options.

It would cost Ford a butt ton of money to put manual windows in. Not that many suppliers make them, and you would have to tool up a series of new door panels. It's one more thing to sequence.

Heck manual locks might even weigh more.

It will literally never happen.

Not putting things in like certain sound deadener or GT350R parts like radio or rear seat delete is much more feasible.

 

[ArabianOak]

Problem with the new Camaro is:

*looks are terrible
*zero interior space
*blind spots that should basically make the car not street legal
*interior is still pretty pathetic
*ride like crap on the street

To me it's not even a comparison, which truly shows in the sales numbers. It's not ALL about performance with this segment. Most of us (myself included) want some good looks to match the performance and a great interior that we are comfortable in. The S550 interior when loaded is incredible IMO. Ford really stepped it up on this model and the Camaro didn't.

 

[chipmaker]

Yep, the market wants performance simplicity from a muscle car, leave the 10 speeds/magnerides/digital dashes to Audi/Merc etc.

Speak for your self.

 

[ForTehNguyen]

Yep, the market wants performance simplicity from a muscle car, leave the 10 speeds/magnerides/digital dashes to Audi/Merc etc.

its a good thing theres these things called options and you dont have to buy them

 

[WildHorse]

What would you call the Boss 429? Or any of the others that they stuffed the 428 CJ's in? They have been, and always will be, a muscle car unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying (which very well could be ;) ).

Manufactures back in the 50s/60s/ called em 'Supercars' not musclecars.

 

[Abb0nz]

Ford and Dodge could never do it but GM could. The Camaro has huge profits already, I think they could sell a 2SS for well under $20,000 and still make a tidy profit :amen:

**cough, cough**bullshit**cough, cough**

 

[GTRacerX.]

Respect the Rumble

The Mustang is not now, and never was, a "Muscle Car".

For the love of God, please get that straight.

Muscle Car Buddy.

 

[bootlegger]

Base GT price went up by $1900, or 5.7% or 3.5x inflation.

Why are you mentioning inflation? The new GT has an additional fuel system. Of course the price went up. The high pressure pump alone adds several hundred dollars of cost. The new clutch system is also more expensive.

 

[bootlegger]

I love my 350, but with Ford build quality, and dealer attitude and technician skill at anywhere near 5k, I buy that BMW all day long. Some of the more premium Ford vehicles, 350, Raptor etc. They get great press but when you own them you see behind the curtain. They are just damn Fords. I love Ford but if they push too much to try and go up market they will fall on their face. They are not ready at almost every level outside of engineering. But the engineers don't run the company.

How many Bimmers have you owned? My family is on their second. My best friend are also on their second. Their X5 has been in and out of the shop since they bought it 2 years ago. Germans are good at mechanical things. They suck at electronics. I would take Ford reliability over BMW any day.

 

[bootlegger]

I've owned two, taken to high mileage (>150K). If you drive into the dealer and say "fix it" prepare to take it in the shorts (but they do give you nice loaners and have warm cookies in the waiting area). However if you are actually willing to do some minimal maintenance/repairs on your own they are surprisingly easy to work on. Like all cars home maintainability gets more and more difficult every year, but can still be done.

Wheel bearings on the rear of an E36 are probably the most complicated replacement of all the cars I have owned. Ended up saying screw it and took it to a shop ($400 job). That thing ate bearings

 

[NoVaGT]

What would you call the Boss 429? Or any of the others that they stuffed the 428 CJ's in? They have been, and always will be, a muscle car unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying (which very well could be ;) ).

Mustang/Firebird/Camaro were "Pony Cars".

A Muscle Car is a larger sedan with go-faster parts. Challenger/Charger/GTO/Chevelles/Cudas.

Today's Mustangs are GT/Sports Car hybrids.

 

[TomcatDriver]

Mustang/Firebird/Camaro were "Pony Cars".

A Muscle Car is a larger sedan with go-faster parts. Challenger/Charger/GTO/Chevelles/Cudas.

Today's Mustangs are GT/Sports Car hybrids.

Ugg. These definitions are neither precise nor mutually exclusive. That is, a person can reasonably call a car a pony car, a sports car, a Grand Touring car or a muscle car and all be right.

Some definitions can clearly be wrong, a Prius is not a muscle car, a Miata is not a sedan, but most of the time cars like the Mustang sit in the Venn diagram where several circles overlap.

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