Take note, Ford....

[marks]

The Mustang is not now, and never was, a "Muscle Car".

For the love of God, please get that straight.

Love the muscle car Mustang. All that muscle in the Mustang is so great.

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[EJS2016]

Why not bring back bring some affordability back to the V8 Mustang and revive the "LX 5.0"...?

It could be a limited option model that would appeal to budget-conscious consumers that desire Coyote power.

It would surely be a little lighter and a little faster.

 

[ManBearPig]

I'd like to see a true "base" model like you could get in the 90s. Manual windows, mirrors, locks, etc.

 

[thehunterooo]

That article is fake news Camaro sales are doing just fine #1 in retail sales as a matter of fact! And number one in profits!

 

[1320']

It wouldn't surprise me if the RS designation is shifted to the down-trimmed V8 Camaro. Standard dash from the 1LT (with appropriate speedometer and tach), small touch screen, no HID's.

That alone should be able to shave $1,000 off the price.

 

[marks]

The problem that Mustang and Camaro are both having is that they are encroaching into the next perceived echelon of vehicles. The price difference between even a moderately equipped Mustang/Camaro is into BMW/Audi/Lexus/Infinity territory, albeit with lower baseline performance. If I am a typical market demographic (which I am) as either a young professional with few obligations and disposable income, or I am a mid-life with kids out of the house and disposable income looking for a "fun" car for a change, these are actually reasonable cross-shopping considerations. Below $40K performance options are pretty limited, however once I get in the mid $40K range the competition really expands dramatically. A heavily optioned Mustang/Camaro over $50K has a lot of really excellent competition, including some pretty primo low-mileage high-end vehicles.

I kind of agree although I don't mind paying a premium for something like a GT350 where it's all about performance but I don't want to pay for gimmicks like lane assist, keyless entry (what's wrong with a fob), 10 speed, digital dash, magneride etc. Yes I know some of these are on the GT350 ( which is a shame) and most of these things are options but it's the trajectory of Ford that is concerning. Save the R&D costs and manufacturing costs on lots of tech options and just produce a powerful, simple, fun MUSCLE CAR

 

[TomcatDriver]

I don't know why this is a problem. The joke in my friend circle is that my mustang is my "entry level BMW", but the value and fun for dollar is a lot higher for a (new) $40k mustang than a (new) $40k BMW imho

Yea, but as the price has been creeping up. A GT premium went up 7.5% ($2800) 17-18, while inflation in 2017 is around 1.6%. So, Mustang prices have increased 4.5x the rate of inflation. The price of an M240 went up by about $800, or 1.7%, pretty much right in line with inflation. The M240 still costs more, but the gap is closing and if you were on the fence between the two this is enough to push you over.

 

[Strokerswild]

That article is fake news Camaro sales are doing just fine #1 in retail sales as a matter of fact! And number one in profits!

Well, it IS a supercar.... :lol:

 

[bootlegger]

I kind of agree although I don't mind paying a premium for something like a GT350 where it's all about performance but I don't want to pay for gimmicks like lane assist, keyless entry (what's wrong with a fob), 10 speed, digital dash, magneride etc. Yes I know some of these are on the GT350 ( which is a shame) and most of these things are options but it's the trajectory of Ford that is concerning. Save the R&D costs and manufacturing costs on lots of tech options and just produce a powerful, simple, fun MUSCLE CAR

Almost all the things you are complaining about are options. What you are saying is that you just want a base GT fastback, which you can currently buy.

 

[TomcatDriver]

I kind of agree although I don't mind paying a premium for something like a GT350 where it's all about performance but I don't want to pay for gimmicks like lane assist, keyless entry (what's wrong with a fob), 10 speed, digital dash, magneride etc. Yes I know some of these are on the GT350 ( which is a shame) and most of these things are options but it's the trajectory of Ford that is concerning. Save the R&D costs and manufacturing costs on lots of tech options and just produce a powerful, simple, fun MUSCLE CAR

I think it is misleading to think those things actually cost very much. I think that in most cases it would actually be cheaper for the manufacturer to make things like a bigger display and even a digital dash standard across all models for an extra $100 than to make it a $2000 option on high end trim only. The reduction in supply chain complexity alone would be worth it.

I'm pretty sure that the actual cost to produce across all models is far less than the difference in MSRP. A fully optioned GT premium is up around $15K more than GT base for 2018, but I would be surprised if the actual cost to Ford is even than 1/3 of that.

 

[Mr.Zergling]

Yea, but as the price has been creeping up. A GT premium went up 7.5% ($2800) 17-18, while inflation in 2017 is around 1.6%. So, Mustang prices have increased 4.5x the rate of inflation. The price of an M240 went up by about $800, or 1.7%, pretty much right in line with inflation. The M240 still costs more, but the gap is closing and if you were on the fence between the two this is enough to push you over.

Just looking around where I live a M240i convertible starts at $55k dealer advertised online price ($58k MSRP). I paid $40k for my car, pretty close to dealer advertised $41k ($47k MSRP). Sure the price increase for '18 is substantial but it's still ~$10k difference between an '18 and a M240.

...And then consider maintenance costs for quality German reliability

 

[TomcatDriver]

Almost all the things you are complaining about are options. What you are saying is that you just want a base GT fastback, which you can currently buy.

Base GT price went up by $1900, or 5.7% or 3.5x inflation.

 

[superman07]

I agree however the big companies have hundreds of sales and marketing geniuses that tell them that they must up sell and pump margins on those items to subsidies the other items that are flat or may not even break even. I prefer volume over margin, every sale you get is one from your competitor. Margins can be brought back slowly as you increasingly increase market share and competition lessens.

I think it is misleading to think those things actually cost very much. I think that in most cases it would actually be cheaper for the manufacturer to make things like a bigger display and even a digital dash standard across all models for an extra $100 than to make it a $2000 option on high end trim only. The reduction in supply chain complexity alone would be worth it.

I'm pretty sure that the actual cost to produce across all models is far less than the difference in MSRP. A fully optioned GT premium is up around $15K more than GT base for 2018, but I would be surprised if the actual cost to Ford is even than 1/3 of that.

 

[TomcatDriver]

Just looking around where I live a M240i convertible starts at $55k dealer advertised online price ($58k MSRP). I paid $40k for my car, pretty close to dealer advertised $41k ($47k MSRP). Sure the price increase for '18 is substantial but it's still ~$10k difference between an '18 and a M240.

...And then consider maintenance costs for quality German reliability

Well, the panels fit. MSRP for a base M240 is about $45K, and discounts and incentives in the $5K range are pretty common. USAA buying service says I can get one for around $41K right now. When you start comparing OTD pricing it gets pretty tricky, because there is always somebody out there who got a great deal, and somebody else who paid ADM.

In any case, I think with the 18 pricing you are getting closer to a $5K or less price difference until you start seeing incentives.

 

[NoVaGT]

Base GT price went up by $1900, or 5.7% or 3.5x inflation.

The engine and transmissions are new. I'd bet both have had 50+% parts change.

The changes to the engine are more dramatic than they're given credit for.

Basically, the car is just more expensive to manufacture.

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