"Surprise" PP2 Short comings for track use, not easy to remedy

[Hack]

Great, clear write-up on some interesting issues! You made me grateful I waited to buy my Mach 1 in 2021 instead of getting a PP2 a couple years earlier, heh... Although I still haven't gotten her to the track (I want to, but been having too much fun with my GT4).

I'm curious what seats you have and what solutions you have for holding yourself in place on track if they're factory seats. Although I'm sure this is another topic that's been beaten to death around here, haven't searched yet.

I have driven on track in Mustangs with both the Recaros as well as the "sofa" base style seats, and for me I need a harness and it needs to be TIGHT in order to be able to relax behind the wheel on track and just be held in place. I don't find a difference between the two types of seats on track. I'm too large for the Recaros (6'4" 200 lbs), but I can squeeze into them for a track session. Even with them being excessively tight, they don't hold me in place without a tight harness.

Question for people on here who have had the front bearings fail on them. What was the failure mode? Did the failure require the car to be towed? Did the bearing just get noisy or is this a dangerous failure that could cause a wheel to come off or something?

I'm trying to decide whether the bearing thing is something to do right away, or if I'm ok waiting until the first ones fail.

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[bnightstar]

I have driven on track in Mustangs with both the Recaros as well as the "sofa" base style seats, and for me I need a harness and it needs to be TIGHT in order to be able to relax behind the wheel on track and just be held in place. I don't find a difference between the two types of seats on track. I'm too large for the Recaros (6'4" 200 lbs), but I can squeeze into them for a track session. Even with them being excessively tight, they don't hold me in place without a tight harness.

Question for people on here who have had the front bearings fail on them. What was the failure mode? Did the failure require the car to be towed? Did the bearing just get noisy or is this a dangerous failure that could cause a wheel to come off or something?

I'm trying to decide whether the bearing thing is something to do right away, or if I'm ok waiting until the first ones fail.

the rears are more common to fail especially driver side rear. It starts with a lot of noise but if not adressed will lead to speed sensors of which will lead to the car not functioning properly with abs/traction control and a Christmas tree lights (this happen also on the street). For the front the GT350/M1 hubs actually have different front geometry which is better suited for track use (this is the benefit) they are also more durable though front hub failures are more rare than rear ones they do happen as well. Having spare wheel hubs is always good as well. Did you never run into wheel hub issues ?

 

[Hack]

the rears are more common to fail especially driver side rear. It starts with a lot of noise but if not adressed will lead to speed sensors of which will lead to the car not functioning properly with abs/traction control and a Christmas tree lights (this happen also on the street). For the front the GT350/M1 hubs actually have different front geometry which is better suited for track use (this is the benefit) they are also more durable though front hub failures are more rare than rear ones they do happen as well. Having spare wheel hubs is always good as well. Did you never run into wheel hub issues ?

That's great news! I think I'll wait until I hear some noise before I do anything.

I haven't had a wheel bearing/hub problem yet. I like to go to the track, but I just don't get there very often. I only got to the track a handful of times with the GT350, and with the PP1, I've only been once to a very small track near my house that to me barely counts as a real track. After I bought the car I spent a bunch of time on modifications to hopefully keep the car cool. Then I went to the small track. Next was a larger track with higher speeds, but I was working on a bathroom remodel this last summer/fall that took up all my spare time.

I probably would have been better off just keeping the GT350 once I completed the cooling modifications on that car. I was worried about future potential engine issues, but that car was terrific. A lot more money, but my time is worth something as well. It is fun going through the modification process, though.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

That's great news! I think I'll wait until I hear some noise before I do anything.

I haven't had a wheel bearing/hub problem yet. I like to go to the track, but I just don't get there very often. I only got to the track a handful of times with the GT350, and with the PP1, I've only been once to a very small track near my house that to me barely counts as a real track. After I bought the car I spent a bunch of time on modifications to hopefully keep the car cool. Then I went to the small track. Next was a larger track with higher speeds, but I was working on a bathroom remodel this last summer/fall that took up all my spare time.

I probably would have been better off just keeping the GT350 once I completed the cooling modifications on that car. I was worried about future potential engine issues, but that car was terrific. A lot more money, but my time is worth something as well. It is fun going through the modification process, though.

Mach 1 hubs are not invincible either. 30k miles on mine (my late ‘21 base came with them). They were crunchy and had minor play.

I wonder how much it’s the heat of the oem PP brakes and the solid rotors that puts all the heat into them killing the grease.

My rears were shot too at 30k as well. Both had the crunch and one had play.

Wheel bearings are just a wear item on these pigs.

 

[Hack]

Mach 1 hubs are not invincible either. 30k miles on mine (my late ‘21 base came with them). They were crunchy and had minor play.

I wonder how much it’s the heat of the oem PP brakes and the solid rotors that puts all the heat into them killing the grease.

My rears were shot too at 30k as well. Both had the crunch and one had play.

Wheel bearings are just a wear item on these pigs.

That's a good amount of mileage. I don't have that many miles on my 2017 yet.

 

[bnightstar]

Mach 1 hubs are not invincible either. 30k miles on mine (my late ‘21 base came with them). They were crunchy and had minor play.

I wonder how much it’s the heat of the oem PP brakes and the solid rotors that puts all the heat into them killing the grease.

My rears were shot too at 30k as well. Both had the crunch and one had play.

Wheel bearings are just a wear item on these pigs.

what kills wheel hubs is the lug nuts backing out because of the temperatures this things generate especially on track and tire shops not knowing to have them 150 ft-lbs tight (this is a must). I'm having much more success with mine after I bought a cheap torque wrench and religiously go over mine.

 

[junits15]

4) Ford Flex Fuel system for E85 tune; Again, in their engineering wisdom, Ford chose to not actually measure the alcohol content of the fuel in your fuel lines like GM does (and probably every other car company) they use the O2 sensor to "calculate" your fuel mixture. You can purchase an aftermarket bluetooth system for $400-500 to tell you exactly what your fuel mix is. Switching from a high octane to a lower is no issue but switching form low to high, you need to be patient, letting the engine run and "smell" the exhaust for a while and "learn" your fuel mix.

I'll just add to this, there is an option out there now for those wishing to use a real sensor. PCMtech's software allows this to work over the can bus. I just got done wiring mine.

The inferred flex system is very very limited, honestly its a genius system because it allows ford to add flex fuel to cars with zero extra parts. For average driving it works perfectly, which is all it was ever made for.

My current theory is that the "flex" tunes you can buy right now actually run base timing for gasoline, and then allow the adder to push up to ethanol levels. That way it doesn't matter if it learns the fuel wrong.

 

[nbjeeptj]

I have had failures on the front ones 2 different times. In both cases it caused excessive brake pedal travel, which on track leads to a lack of confidence in your brakes. With the bearing failing it causes slop in that wheel which causes the rotor to push slightly on the brake pads when not on the brakes, then when you push the brake it will stand the rotor up straight but require more brake travel. The 1st time I had this happen I misdiagnosed the issue and rebuilt the calipers replaced the master cylinder thinking it was the issue, but it ended up being the wheel bearing.

As for the drivability issue, I could have either time made it home safely had I not had a trailer.

 

[sdettlinger]

I have driven on track in Mustangs with both the Recaros as well as the "sofa" base style seats, and for me I need a harness and it needs to be TIGHT in order to be able to relax behind the wheel on track and just be held in place. I don't find a difference between the two types of seats on track. I'm too large for the Recaros (6'4" 200 lbs), but I can squeeze into them for a track session. Even with them being excessively tight, they don't hold me in place without a tight harness.

I'm your size too, what are you running for harnesses? I have a 20 PP2 with the base leather seats. Looked at the Schroth Quick Fit Pro (I think the standard quick fit uses the 15-17 seat belt receptacles to secure the rear).

I also daily the car, hoping to track a couple times this year for fun, so having a full on harness bar and expensive harnesses isn't worth the investment/hassle IMO for my use case

 

[shogun32]

Schroth Quick Fit Pro (I think the standard quick fit uses the 15-17 seat belt receptacles to secure the rear).

not any more. He yielded to pressure and now there are 2 versions - <18 and >18

 

[sms2022]

I'll just add to this, there is an option out there now for those wishing to use a real sensor. PCMtech's software allows this to work over the can bus. I just got done wiring mine.

The inferred flex system is very very limited, honestly its a genius system because it allows ford to add flex fuel to cars with zero extra parts. For average driving it works perfectly, which is all it was ever made for.

My current theory is that the "flex" tunes you can buy right now actually run base timing for gasoline, and then allow the adder to push up to ethanol levels. That way it doesn't matter if it learns the fuel wrong.

Who are you using to tune the car after you wire in the sensor? This is exactly what I want to do but I’ve not found someone to do the tune yet

 

[junits15]

Who are you using to tune the car after you wire in the sensor? This is exactly what I want to do but I’ve not found someone to do the tune yet

Lund will do it for you I believe. I'm tuning mine myself with great success so far! I really like the system it works perfectly.

 

[sms2022]

Lund will do it for you I believe. I'm tuning mine myself with great success so far! I really like the system it works perfectly.

Lund told me no after pcmtec said they could do it. Maybe I got a bad customer rep who didn’t know what I was talking about. Didn’t really love their customer service though

 

[shogun32]

Didn’t really love their customer service though

why not pursue the guy who quit Lund and set up his own shop?

 

[sms2022]

why not pursue the guy who quit Lund and set up his own shop?

Who might that be? I might have already reached out to him. I’ve talked to 7-8 tuners and most of them are working on it but not there yet

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