Shelby GT350 Mustang Owners File New Class Action Lawsuit Against Ford for Fraud

[lemers]

First you never hit limp mode on the street. You said so yourself.
Second you don't track your "track tech car" so you don't have to worry about limp mode there either.
No I'm not interested in buying your car for 2 reasons.
One I have one.
Two you're not selling.

And you just said again it hasn't hit limp mode so it shouldn't be a problem for me. Nor is it a problem for you.

First I havent hit limp mode YET, I only started driving my 16 in Feb after deployment. Temps are just now hitting 80's

Second, I havent tracked it YET, see my first reason. My trip to Nurburgring got rained out. Maybe next Tourist day...but Ill still be worrying about limp mode.

If you arent interested in buying peoples cars; then quit telling them to sell. You have no idea what situation we are in. For me, i just cant shop around for another GT350 or any chevy for that matter.

It is a problem that ford built a high performance car that people dont have confidence in.

Sponsored

 

[My2017CamaroZL1]

Really why are you sure of that? Most people are woefully uninformed.

I am not sure what you mean when you say, "are you sure of that" You mean the price or the lawsuit?

Edit: Ok, I see what you mean. I have seen the prices of the Tech go down steadily since the lawsuit/selling mine, that's all

 

[HizliBullet]

on a side note, case began with 4 names, look at it now

Plaintiffs George Tershakovec, Diana Tershakovec, John Aubrey, Byron Harper, Richard Kowalchik, Herbert Alley, Michael DeLaGarza, Eric Kamperman, Travis McRae, Todd Newton, Eric Evans, Attila Gondan, Mark Hochsprung, Jacques Rimokh, Michael McCurry, Greg Roberts, and Jose Cruz (collectively, “Plaintiffs”)

 

[stanglife]

on a side note, case began with 4 names, look at it now

Plaintiffs George Tershakovec, Diana Tershakovec, John Aubrey, Byron Harper, Richard Kowalchik, Herbert Alley, Michael DeLaGarza, Eric Kamperman, Travis McRae, Todd Newton, Eric Evans, Attila Gondan, Mark Hochsprung, Jacques Rimokh, Michael McCurry, Greg Roberts, and Jose Cruz (collectively, “Plaintiffs”)

Found their group photo:

 

[stanglife]

^^ Lol - one person on twice. Did someone actually buy TWO tech cars???

 

[Redline8250]

First I havent hit limp mode YET, I only started driving my 16 in Feb after deployment. Temps are just now hitting 80's

Second, I havent tracked it YET, see my first reason. My trip to Nurburgring got rained out. Maybe next Tourist day...but Ill still be worrying about limp mode.

If you arent interested in buying peoples cars; then quit telling them to sell. You have no idea what situation we are in. For me, i just cant shop around for another GT350 or any chevy for that matter.

It is a problem that ford built a high performance car that people dont have confidence in.

Do you worry about dying tomorrow? It could happen but doesn't mean you will. Unless of course you worry yourself to death. Until your car hits limp mode you have no ground to stand on.
"IF" "IF" you had proof of this I'd defend you. But you don't. Sorry.

Yeaaaah I have no idea what kind of situation you're in. Ok well it's been a bitch fest for 76 pages and almost 2 years. Ford didn't help you then nor will they now.
I just can't help myself understand why you feel ford owes you anything at all. You, yes you bought the car. You made the purchase. Ford did not make you buy a tech or base gt350. So what if they call it a track car. Not every car sold will be used what it was said to be. If someone buys a "off road" package 4x4 does that mean it should be able to compete in the Baja 1000?
If I buy a cobra does that mean I should be a snake farmer?
If I buy a escort does that mean I Hooker myself out in the evenings?
If I buy a Ranchero does that mean I'm a ranch hero or rodeo hero?
It's called a GT350 TECH PACK meaning technology and GT350 BASE PACK meaning BASIC. GT350 TRACK PACK meaning Track capable, GT350R meaning Race. GET IT?

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Perception is reality...Ford could say whatever they want, the public will undoubtedly see this as something else. Even "resonable doubt" in the minds of Ford's customers should be enough for them to make some attempt to correct it. You have to admit, it's awfully fishy to correct the one blaring "wrong" with this car that's been talked about in the press just one MY after it happened.

This isn't a base model Fiesta that has a goofy window switch or something either, this car gets talked about, a LOT. The cost of that negative press alone could probably buy each and every 2015-2016 Base/Tech owner all the coolers their cars will ever need...

As cool as it would be for Ford Performance and Shelby to stand behind this and correct the matter, it likely won't happen. But if enough cases of owners having their car hit LM while driving in normal conditions start popping up, it could become a matter more in tune with the recall or TSB.

People love to Assume, and often base their entire standpoints on what they believe rather than facts. Are you forgetting that Ford is a business? "Yeah, lets not reduce our manufacturing costs while simultaneously increasing profit margins" said no business ever.

Not to mention that it was clear that through MY16 consumers WOULD pay more, to have both sets of options. So screw Ford for wanting to make more money and appealing to consumer desires right :shrug:

Also agree about if more issues of Limp Mode occurring pop up with respect to use on public roads. But as I said in my next post, why can't this be documented? Should be very easy to repeat the process considering so many claim that "THIS causes limp mode on the street". Well, ok, go do it again, and bring a camera, simple. But yet we still see Zero evidence.

And perception isn't reality my friend... What a ridiculous notion, unless you're on acid. Consumers are WRONG all the f***ing time. Just because someone believes in something or thinks that something works like X, doesn't make them right. What kind of retarded society are we living in where people think like this? That nobody is ever wrong? That because you believe in something, you can't be wrong or told the difference? That is a society full of IDIOTS, where truth and intelligence have to make way and bend to the will of those who can't/don't understand any better.

And just an FYI, not calling everyone here idiots, as I'm sure a number will assume that. My point is, is that people can be wrong and that Belief =/= reality.

I'd answer this question by asking you why it doesn't exist for 2017....

It's rhetorical, and I'm sure you know the answer.

Simply put, Ford would NOT make these extra coolers standard if the car didn't likely need it. They sure didn't do it because of a handful of upset owners.

See answer above. People have a chip on their shoulder, I get it. But you're looking for reasons/decisions/conspiracies because you're letting emotions cloud your judgement. BUSINESS rules the decision making; most often the simplest solution/answer is the best one.

You're seeing fishy actions and conspiracies because you want to see them, and thinking that it is more likely that Ford was purposefully attempting to be malicious or "covering their tracks" (pun intended) rather than simply making the easiest business case EVER while also appealing to consumer demand is simply illogical.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

First I havent hit limp mode YET, I only started driving my 16 in Feb after deployment. Temps are just now hitting 80's

Second, I havent tracked it YET, see my first reason. My trip to Nurburgring got rained out. Maybe next Tourist day...but Ill still be worrying about limp mode.

If you arent interested in buying peoples cars; then quit telling them to sell. You have no idea what situation we are in. For me, i just cant shop around for another GT350 or any chevy for that matter.

It is a problem that ford built a high performance car that people dont have confidence in.

Honestly man, I think the vast majority of tech cars aren't having issues. Understandably being overseas your situation is certainly different than others, and certainly more difficult.

That being said, until you test your car and either hit or not hit limp mode, you not having "confidence" in it doesn't mean diddly squat. If this was an event that was happening regularly to a vast majority of the Tech owner's, we'd see more coverage, more reports, and most importantly more proof/videos.

In all seriousness, for those who say they hit Limp on the street, why can't these people get documented proof? They say they know what causes it or how it happened, so why can't they simply repeat the same process but take a gopro or a phone video to show it happening? Genuinely at a loss as to why this is so impossible to do, as it would immensely help any individual owner's case in having the car bought back/replaced as some others have already done.

 

[Shift]

Did my mountain run, as I've been doing for these past few weeks. However, last week was when I turned on the oil temp monitor. ~30mins into my run with another 10-15mins to go, I noticed my trans temp was at 261*. Ambient temps were 78*, and road was mostly shaded. IIRC, limp mode hits around 270*, so when I noticed, I immediately went into higher gear. Rev range was probably ~3-6k at any given time, when bursts up to redline when the road emptied or I needed to pass cars.

Base car, no passengers, no AC on.

I'll start looking into data logging soon. I haven't given a proper response in this thread because I wanted to wait until summer temps have hit(which they have) and I saw for myself how hot the transmission gets when you get on it.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Did my mountain run, as I've been doing for these past few weeks. However, last week was when I turned on the oil temp monitor. ~30mins into my run with another 10-15mins to go, I noticed my trans temp were at 261*. Ambient temps were 78*, and road was mostly shaded. IIRC, limp mode hits around 270*, so when I noticed, I immediately went into higher gear. Rev range was probably ~3-6k at any given time, when bursts up to redline when the road emptied or I needed to pass cars.

Base car, no passengers, no AC on.

I'll start looking into data logging soon.

So 270 is around the magic number for the trans, and 300 for the engine oil? Honestly if you noted it that high you should have kept going and took a video! Could have either helped the case that these cars definitively will hit limp mode on the street, or also help the case that there may be specific things wrong with those cars that are hitting limp mode on the street, if yours could hit those temps without enabling limp mode. Either way, would have provided some valuable information to tech owners :cheers:

 

[Shift]

So 270 is around the magic number for the trans, and 300 for the engine oil? Honestly if you noted it that high you should have kept going and took a video! Could have either helped the case that these cars definitively will hit limp mode on the street, or also help the case that there may be specific things wrong with those cars that are hitting limp mode on the street, if yours could hit those temps without enabling limp mode. Either way, would have provided some valuable information to tech owners :cheers:

It's a new mountain road for me, so I didn't feel comfortable hitting limp mode there for the first time. I'll make sure its logged though when I go for a drive again up that road. I also have a dashcam to go with the data. Most of the time, I was stuck behind cars just taking a cruise.

When it first happened, that's when I seriously considered getting a transmission cooler, as the last thing I want to do is get rid of my baby. I'm willing to pay for the parts and labor, I just need assurance that my transmission is still warrantied(which goes into either a gray area, or just voided in general).

 

[stanglife]

So 270 is around the magic number for the trans, and 300 for the engine oil? Honestly if you noted it that high you should have kept going and took a video! Could have either helped the case that these cars definitively will hit limp mode on the street, or also help the case that there may be specific things wrong with those cars that are hitting limp mode on the street, if yours could hit those temps without enabling limp mode. Either way, would have provided some valuable information to tech owners :cheers:

Not sure how much that will actually help. If you are on the street but in a place that allows you to drive as if you are on the track....the results will possibly be as expected - track temps.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Not sure how much that will actually help. If you are on the street but in a place that allows you to drive as if you are on the track....the results will possibly be as expected - track temps.

True enough, but some have claimed hitting limp by merely sitting in traffic or just during highway commutes. I really don't see anyone being able to wring these cars out on the street in the same way as we would on track, but if just "spirited" driving or the other normal driving instances can cause it to occur I think for those who can document and prove it, it will help their cases immensely.

For those who are driving on the street like they would the track, those probably shouldn't be driving in the first place

 

[Stoked]

People love to Assume, and often base their entire standpoints on what they believe rather than facts. Are you forgetting that Ford is a business? "Yeah, lets not reduce our manufacturing costs while simultaneously increasing profit margins" said no business ever.

Not to mention that it was clear that through MY16 consumers WOULD pay more, to have both sets of options. So screw Ford for wanting to make more money and appealing to consumer desires right :shrug:

Also agree about if more issues of Limp Mode occurring pop up with respect to use on public roads. But as I said in my next post, why can't this be documented? Should be very easy to repeat the process considering so many claim that "THIS causes limp mode on the street". Well, ok, go do it again, and bring a camera, simple. But yet we still see Zero evidence.

And perception isn't reality my friend... What a ridiculous notion, unless you're on acid. Consumers are WRONG all the f***ing time. Just because someone believes in something or thinks that something works like X, doesn't make them right. What kind of retarded society are we living in where people think like this? That nobody is ever wrong? That because you believe in something, you can't be wrong or told the difference? That is a society full of IDIOTS, where truth and intelligence have to make way and bend to the will of those who can't/don't understand any better.

And just an FYI, not calling everyone here idiots, as I'm sure a number will assume that. My point is, is that people can be wrong and that Belief =/= reality.



See answer above. People have a chip on their shoulder, I get it. But you're looking for reasons/decisions/conspiracies because you're letting emotions cloud your judgement. BUSINESS rules the decision making; most often the simplest solution/answer is the best one.

You're seeing fishy actions and conspiracies because you want to see them, and thinking that it is more likely that Ford was purposefully attempting to be malicious or "covering their tracks" (pun intended) rather than simply making the easiest business case EVER while also appealing to consumer demand is simply illogical.

Yes, I know Ford is a business. You know what else matters in business? Soft cost. The cost of alienating customers. The cost of bad decisions.

How many GT350 buyers are considering ZL1s now because of this? Those are things that businesses (like Ford) need to be thinking about or suffer for later. Like I said, this isn't a Fiesta. This is a halo car. You sell MORE Fiestas if people want your halo car, it's as simple as that.

LOL. Okay...I'm on acid for saying public opinion can sway business decisions. Maybe you should go ahead an re-think that one before I waste any more time explaining it to you. I don't have enough time or this site have enough bandwidth to share that many examples of how wrong you are.

"The Customer is Always Wrong"... SAID NO BUSINESS EVER.

Call them idiots all you want, but the fact remains that public opinion can sway a lot here, and it's a legit concern. That's their perception, and they'll respond with their dollars....Ford is a business, as you love saying so much, and business is ruled by dollars. The cost of installing more transmission coolers in limited production cars is PEANUTS to losing the sale of them by losing the trust of your clientele.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Yes, I know Ford is a business. You know what else matters in business? Soft cost. The cost of alienating customers. The cost of bad decisions.

How many GT350 buyers are considering ZL1s now because of this? Those are things that businesses (like Ford) need to be thinking about or suffer for later. Like I said, this isn't a Fiesta. This is a halo car. You sell MORE Fiestas if people want your halo car, it's as simple as that.

LOL. Okay...I'm on acid for saying public opinion can sway business decisions. Maybe you should go ahead an re-think that one before I waste any more time explaining it to you. I don't have enough time or this site have enough bandwidth to share that many examples of how wrong you are.

"The Customer is Always Wrong"... SAID NO BUSINESS EVER.

Call them idiots all you want, but the fact remains that public opinion can sway a lot here, and it's a legit concern. That's their perception, and they'll respond with their dollars....Ford is a business, as you love saying so much, and business is ruled by dollars. The cost of installing more transmission coolers in limited production cars is PEANUTS to losing the sale of them by losing the trust of your clientele.

I never claimed the customer is always wrong. I said the customer CAN be wrong, and simply because someone believes something to be true, doesn't make it true. Not sure how you can confuse that. I'm also not saying you are on acid; it is called satire. IF you, or any individual for that matter, believes that their perception is reality, then they must be out of their minds. I can believe myself as being the best driver in the world, it doesn't make it reality. I can believe that my car will beat every other out there, doesn't make it a reality.

In regards to alienating customers, i 100% agree with you. Whether the customers are in fact, wrong, or not in their beliefs/assumptions they made, that can and will absolutely affect how they view Ford and where they bring their business next time around, I absolutely agree with you on that. I also absolutely agree that it would cost them next to nothing to simply give in and fix it all to get everyone to shutup.

But the truth of the matter? They don't care about getting them to shutup. They make more profit off of 1 month's sales in F150's than they will in an entire model year of the GT350. They also know that for every customer they potentially piss off whom will leave and go to GM/Dodge/whoever, there is a customer of their's that is also pissed off or feel "slighted" by GM/Dodge/whoever that Ford can/may gain back.

End of the day, we both know they can't please everyone, because if they focused on that it would mean cutting way into their profits, and even then they would probably piss off someone else. They spend the money immediately and provide coolers for free, all Tech owners are delighted, they piss off and alienate Track/R owners who paid extra for those same items. They give all of us a rebate, and they directly cut into their profits which then affects future decisions on whether special projects are even worth it or not.

I would personally like to see them offer a solution that Tech owners must pay for that includes an OEM level warranty, as I think that is a fair solution. However, I would stand behind them in denying hand outs and rather those who don't receive the handouts be pissed off, rather than give in due to customer's who made uneducated decisions or based their decisions on beliefs. If we can make any company bend to our will because we wish to believe in something that does not hold with reality/proven science, then I don't think that company is going to be inclined to ever cater or go out of their way for the very small minority that we are in the future regarding new special projects, and stick with much less interesting but "safe" bets.

Sponsored