Texstang
Well-Known Member
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- #1
Posting this in the issues section since it's more relevant here.
My car is an early 2016 build with a Cleveland engine. I currently have 61,242 miles on it with no powertrain-related mods other than a catch can and intercooler/charge-pipes (see sig). About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the car would start a bit rough for about 2-5 seconds, and then proceed to run smoothly. At the time I didn't notice any smoke or smells (although I was in the car so it was hard to see, and prior to this I never had the dreaded Ecoboost PCV-related smoke issue.
Below is what I checked at that time:
I checked and didn't see any DTCs in Forscan Lite. I didn't see anything too out of the ordinary when I logged some drives with Forscan. No issues with the low side fuel pressure vs desired, no issues that I could see with excessive knock/misfire, long term fuel trim cells were < +10%, octane ratio hadn't changed, and everything else looked fairly normal. Zero issues with coolant temperature or cylinder head temperature.
I checked my catch can and emptied it. It had a small amount of oil that looked typical from what I've emptied in the past. I actually replaced the hoses on it at the time since the original ones from Mishimoto were garbage and weeped oil out of them pretty much from day-1. They sent me new ones that are holding up fine so far. The catch can has been on the car since 1,500 miles (basically brand new) and I have never gutted or replaced the PCV.
I pulled the plugs (NGK 1 step colder-than-stock), verified the gap was consistent 0.028" and didn't see any wetness or fouling that I could see. They've been in there about 2 years, so I replaced them with the same units gapped to 0.028". At the same time I removed and cleaned the throttle body and other than typical light carbon buildup, it wasn't dirty. Once I did these two steps, I disconnected the battery and cleared the Keep-Alive Memory so that the car could re-learn all trims/adaptations.
I changed my oil about 1,500 miles prior to noticing the issue and the oil was pretty normal - dark, but I certainly didn't see any milkiness or anything strange. The car doesn't consume oil for the most part and I normally go ~5,000 miles between changes. I use 5W30 Mobil 1 with the Motorcraft filter. Regardless, I checked the oil and fill cap and didn't see any signs of coolant. The level was fine as well.
I checked the coolant when it was cold, and noticed that it was slightly below the MIN line on the degas bottle. I topped it off with the OEM orange Motorcraft coolant, and marked the cold level. I looked all over for leaks, but couldn't find any external leaks. I didn't pressure-test it, but just decided to keep an eye on it. I haven't had any issues with low/no heat in the cabin either.
The steps above didn't really seem to affect anything, and I noticed the cold start rough idle would only happen occasionally. Fast forward to last week, and I noticed that the cold start was accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke. Nothing too crazy, but more than what you would expect to see from condensation. It seemed to have a bit of an odor, but it was so slight that it was hard to tell if it was due to the car running in open loop when warming up or if it was a sweet antifreeze-like smell. It only did it on cold starts, and would clear up fairly quickly. I checked the coolant again, and it seemed to have gone down slightly (maybe 1/8" - 3/16") from the level I previously marked.
Yesterday I got an el-cheapo boroscope and decided to pull the new plugs and check them out as well as take a look in the cylinders. I did that this morning when the engine was dead cold. Cylinders 1-3 looked pretty normal. Cylinder 4 had a small pool of coolant in it which looked as if it was weeping down the side of the cylinder wall. The boroscope I used came with a mirror, but I couldn't get the damn thing to focus properly so I couldn't see the top of the combustion chamber or valves, but I did get a decent look at the cylinder wall and it looked consistent with what you can see of it in the pictures below. I didn't take a picture of the plugs unfortunately, but I didn't notice any fouling, however, the "rim" that the ground strap attaches to in cylinder 4 had some very slight moisture on it. The insulators looked fine and the gaps were the same as I set them. I pulled the oil cap again, which you can see in the third picture below. Possibly a bit of condensation, but looks fairly clean to me.
This is cylinder 3. Cylinders 1 and 2 looked pretty consistent to this one.
View media item 16478
This is cylinder 4. Note the coolant weeping down the side of the wall at the 8 'o-clock position.
View media item 16477
Here's the oil cap. I didn't notice any milkiness on the dipstick, but didn't grab any pictures of it either.
View media item 16476
After seeing this, I called the dealership this morning (Saturday) and let them know. I have the Ford ESP (Extra Care) that I bought from Flood Ford and it's good until 7 years, 75,000 miles, so I have coverage. I'm bringing the car in on Tuesday (I'll call back on Monday and see if I can bring it in that afternoon). I don't want to drive with it like this. I have the "enhanced rental coverage" with the "first day rental" option as well, so hopefully they'll take care of me. Does anybody have experience with using this?
Pretty frustrating because I'm honestly not very hard on this car, and I take pretty good car of it. Like I said above, the only powertrain-related mods I have are the catch can and the intercooler / charge pipes. Prior to this though, the only issues I've had with the car were the evaporator core which kicked the bucket 2 years into ownership in mid 2017, and the evap purge solenoid/valve that set the P1450 DTC code. I replaced the evap part myself as it was $20 and would've been an inconvenience to take it to the dealer. The evaporator core was replaced under the original 3Y/36K warranty.
Update as of today: the dealer has had the car since Monday. They said they didn't find any coolant leaks and I sent them the pictures in response. They said they took another look and that "it's nothing to be worried about". Does anyone have any advice on what to do? It seems to me that coolant shouldn't be in the cylinder.
My car is an early 2016 build with a Cleveland engine. I currently have 61,242 miles on it with no powertrain-related mods other than a catch can and intercooler/charge-pipes (see sig). About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the car would start a bit rough for about 2-5 seconds, and then proceed to run smoothly. At the time I didn't notice any smoke or smells (although I was in the car so it was hard to see, and prior to this I never had the dreaded Ecoboost PCV-related smoke issue.
Below is what I checked at that time:
I checked and didn't see any DTCs in Forscan Lite. I didn't see anything too out of the ordinary when I logged some drives with Forscan. No issues with the low side fuel pressure vs desired, no issues that I could see with excessive knock/misfire, long term fuel trim cells were < +10%, octane ratio hadn't changed, and everything else looked fairly normal. Zero issues with coolant temperature or cylinder head temperature.
I checked my catch can and emptied it. It had a small amount of oil that looked typical from what I've emptied in the past. I actually replaced the hoses on it at the time since the original ones from Mishimoto were garbage and weeped oil out of them pretty much from day-1. They sent me new ones that are holding up fine so far. The catch can has been on the car since 1,500 miles (basically brand new) and I have never gutted or replaced the PCV.
I pulled the plugs (NGK 1 step colder-than-stock), verified the gap was consistent 0.028" and didn't see any wetness or fouling that I could see. They've been in there about 2 years, so I replaced them with the same units gapped to 0.028". At the same time I removed and cleaned the throttle body and other than typical light carbon buildup, it wasn't dirty. Once I did these two steps, I disconnected the battery and cleared the Keep-Alive Memory so that the car could re-learn all trims/adaptations.
I changed my oil about 1,500 miles prior to noticing the issue and the oil was pretty normal - dark, but I certainly didn't see any milkiness or anything strange. The car doesn't consume oil for the most part and I normally go ~5,000 miles between changes. I use 5W30 Mobil 1 with the Motorcraft filter. Regardless, I checked the oil and fill cap and didn't see any signs of coolant. The level was fine as well.
I checked the coolant when it was cold, and noticed that it was slightly below the MIN line on the degas bottle. I topped it off with the OEM orange Motorcraft coolant, and marked the cold level. I looked all over for leaks, but couldn't find any external leaks. I didn't pressure-test it, but just decided to keep an eye on it. I haven't had any issues with low/no heat in the cabin either.
The steps above didn't really seem to affect anything, and I noticed the cold start rough idle would only happen occasionally. Fast forward to last week, and I noticed that the cold start was accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke. Nothing too crazy, but more than what you would expect to see from condensation. It seemed to have a bit of an odor, but it was so slight that it was hard to tell if it was due to the car running in open loop when warming up or if it was a sweet antifreeze-like smell. It only did it on cold starts, and would clear up fairly quickly. I checked the coolant again, and it seemed to have gone down slightly (maybe 1/8" - 3/16") from the level I previously marked.
Yesterday I got an el-cheapo boroscope and decided to pull the new plugs and check them out as well as take a look in the cylinders. I did that this morning when the engine was dead cold. Cylinders 1-3 looked pretty normal. Cylinder 4 had a small pool of coolant in it which looked as if it was weeping down the side of the cylinder wall. The boroscope I used came with a mirror, but I couldn't get the damn thing to focus properly so I couldn't see the top of the combustion chamber or valves, but I did get a decent look at the cylinder wall and it looked consistent with what you can see of it in the pictures below. I didn't take a picture of the plugs unfortunately, but I didn't notice any fouling, however, the "rim" that the ground strap attaches to in cylinder 4 had some very slight moisture on it. The insulators looked fine and the gaps were the same as I set them. I pulled the oil cap again, which you can see in the third picture below. Possibly a bit of condensation, but looks fairly clean to me.
This is cylinder 3. Cylinders 1 and 2 looked pretty consistent to this one.
View media item 16478
This is cylinder 4. Note the coolant weeping down the side of the wall at the 8 'o-clock position.
View media item 16477
Here's the oil cap. I didn't notice any milkiness on the dipstick, but didn't grab any pictures of it either.
View media item 16476
After seeing this, I called the dealership this morning (Saturday) and let them know. I have the Ford ESP (Extra Care) that I bought from Flood Ford and it's good until 7 years, 75,000 miles, so I have coverage. I'm bringing the car in on Tuesday (I'll call back on Monday and see if I can bring it in that afternoon). I don't want to drive with it like this. I have the "enhanced rental coverage" with the "first day rental" option as well, so hopefully they'll take care of me. Does anybody have experience with using this?
Pretty frustrating because I'm honestly not very hard on this car, and I take pretty good car of it. Like I said above, the only powertrain-related mods I have are the catch can and the intercooler / charge pipes. Prior to this though, the only issues I've had with the car were the evaporator core which kicked the bucket 2 years into ownership in mid 2017, and the evap purge solenoid/valve that set the P1450 DTC code. I replaced the evap part myself as it was $20 and would've been an inconvenience to take it to the dealer. The evaporator core was replaced under the original 3Y/36K warranty.
Update as of today: the dealer has had the car since Monday. They said they didn't find any coolant leaks and I sent them the pictures in response. They said they took another look and that "it's nothing to be worried about". Does anyone have any advice on what to do? It seems to me that coolant shouldn't be in the cylinder.
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