GR340 - Down and Out

[SchultzLT1]

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[Voodooo]

Do you have a loose or out of round pulley? How much spring tension is on the belt tensioner? This can be measured in pounds by a spring gauge. The higher the RPM the more the belt acts as a whip.

 

[Agent_S550]

Just a heads up but as someone who's been the mediator for a dealership on a situation like this, unless they can get it to reproduce the problem they are not enabled by Ford nor do they have any inclination what it could be. Ford won't let them throw parts at it, and if the car refuses to act up on them it's not really anything they can help. I've had to tell quite a few people with weird issues the same story because ultimately if I can't duplicate it I can't diagnose it. Everyone wants to be up in arms about the price of the car, the warranty, and how they should receive satisfaction. However a quick turn around of repair is only fine if it's a nail in the tire or a broken shift knob. An engine issue that obviously has no real signs of why it failed is an entirely different issue. Its not a simple fix. These are not chevy 350's. It's a highly technical machine so treat it as such. Highly technical cars require more attention to figure out.

Not defending any dealership actions but expecting Ford to snap their fingers and a fix to happen on a limited production vehicle without truly understanding what happened isn't fair either. They can only cure the symptoms and not the cause if they do it that way. Besides, I bet there are maybe 2 or 3 voodoo crate motors in the supply chain floating around- if that. So when these things pop, Ford has to go find a warranty crate motor to put back in it. It's not like a Honda Accord where they have four motors out back and one in the break room lol.

 

[krt22]

Well... old post with an update. Car has broken another belt. Appears that my car breaks them about every 1000 miles. It looks like the belt breaking damaged some electrical wiring and did cosmetic damage to a cooling line. Their must be an pulley alignment issue or something. Anyone have any ideas what would cause two belts to break on a new car with barely 2,000 miles? Back to the dealer for another round of troubleshooting. :frusty:

Something is definitely not right. If it breaks a third time you can leverage using the lemon law to tell them to stop messing around and just replace the engine or get an engineer to the dealership to do a failure analysis. I would escalate this with Deysha as well

 

[stanglife]

Just a heads up but as someone who's been the mediator for a dealership on a situation like this, unless they can get it to reproduce the problem they are not enabled by Ford nor do they have any inclination what it could be. Ford won't let them throw parts at it, and if the car refuses to act up on them it's not really anything they can help. I've had to tell quite a few people with weird issues the same story because ultimately if I can't duplicate it I can't diagnose it. Everyone wants to be up in arms about the price of the car, the warranty, and how they should receive satisfaction. However a quick turn around of repair is only fine if it's a nail in the tire or a broken shift knob. An engine issue that obviously has no real signs of why it failed is an entirely different issue. Its not a simple fix. These are not chevy 350's. It's a highly technical machine so treat it as such. Highly technical cars require more attention to figure out.

Not defending any dealership actions but expecting Ford to snap their fingers and a fix to happen on a limited production vehicle without truly understanding what happened isn't fair either. They can only cure the symptoms and not the cause if they do it that way. Besides, I bet there are maybe 2 or 3 voodoo crate motors in the supply chain floating around- if that. So when these things pop, Ford has to go find a warranty crate motor to put back in it. It's not like a Honda Accord where they have four motors out back and one in the break room lol.

I understand what you're saying but don't you think there are certain circumstances that warrant "throwing parts at it" or maybe a more serious look? 1 time, ok. 2 times...bad luck... if it happened a 3rd time, leaving me stranded - I'd expect some serious troubleshooting to resolve my issue. Let's face it - even if they drove the car and the belt failed while driving it - what else would they be able to see above and beyond what they see when the customer brings it in? Nothing at all - it would just be a broken belt.

 

[Voodooo]

If it were me, I would of inspected it more. Something is obviously wrong to throw 2 belts. Either the tensioner is weak, a loose, misaligned, bent pulley etc. A easy way to check alignment is with a laser. But I do have a question, at what rpm does the belt fail? If you drive around town at say, below 4000 rpm do you go extended time without belt failure? Or does it fail at high rpm? Have you tried a few days of just low rpm driving and a day or two of balls out high rpm pulls to see?
If it fails at high rpm I'd say the tensioner is the cause. I would also check the tensioner spring rate with a spring scale and see what amount of tension it has. My guess at this point is a weak spring tensioner. Also check the idler pulley and make sure the bearing and mounting bolt is tight.
Also all the pulleys are groved except the idler and tensioner pulley. I'm still saying its one of those two because it would be easy for the belt to walk off the smooth face pulley.

 

[Tank]

If it's fixed without a specific cause identified, consider bringing it in at 2,999 miles and have them break it for the third time....

Understand what AgentS550 is saying but I'd push for more of an explanation at this point. [MENTION=7033]Voodoo[/MENTION] provides consistently good and reasonable advise IMO...

Good Luck, here's to a permanent fix :cheers:

 

[MisterGT]

Dropped the car off at the dealership last week. They called me today and said it looks like it will take a new engine to fix the breaking belts:frusty:. It appears that where the A/C mounts to the engine is messed up causing the belt to wear unevenly. They have engaged Ford to see if any other options exist but it isn't sounding great. I may try to drop by the dealership this week so they can show me exactly (everyone wants to see a pic).

Anyone else have their engine swapped? How long did it take? Any concern that it will hurt the value of the vehicle? I assume that it will be "new" engine and not a rebuilt one?

 

[Old Car Guy]

Dropped the car off at the dealership last week. They called me today and said it looks like it will take a new engine to fix the breaking belts:frusty:. It appears that where the A/C mounts to the engine is messed up causing the belt to wear unevenly. They have engaged Ford to see if any other options exist but it isn't sounding great. I may try to drop by the dealership this week so they can show me exactly (everyone wants to see a pic).

Anyone else have their engine swapped? How long did it take? Any concern that it will hurt the value of the vehicle? I assume that it will be "new" engine and not a rebuilt one?

New......... Hope all go's well. :cheers:

 

[Tank]

It appears that where the A/C mounts to the engine is messed up causing the belt to wear unevenly
WTF, really? Please provide details when you get them. Thanks

(everyone wants to see a pic). Definity! Thanks again!

Anyone else have their engine swapped? Not me

Any concern that it will hurt the value of the vehicle? Legit question esp w an R. Keep all docs, maybe get something specifically on the swap from the highest ranking Ford official you can.

I assume that it will be "new" engine and not a rebuilt one?If I were you, I'd assume nothing and get EVERYTHING in writing.

Good Luck Sean, hope you have a speedy & professional fix!

 

[crs2879]

I recall '99 GMC Truck I had that had so many warranty returns I still have the 3 ring binder. GM had the infamous "intermediate steering shaft failure" on these trucks. You would take a corner and the steering column felt like it was about to come apart....they replaced the shaft 5 times in 45K miles (it was a lease and they refused to take the truck back). Their only response to me was "bring it back when it happens again and we'll replace it". GM did extend the B2B warranty for the balance of the lease and I was never happier to see a vehicle leave my driveway....I have not owned a GM vehicle since. My theory of business is to not expect problems will not occur, because they will. The difference between good and great is how a company deals with customer problems.....good luck.

 

[Agent_S550]

I understand what you're saying but don't you think there are certain circumstances that warrant "throwing parts at it" or maybe a more serious look? 1 time, ok. 2 times...bad luck... if it happened a 3rd time, leaving me stranded - I'd expect some serious troubleshooting to resolve my issue. Let's face it - even if they drove the car and the belt failed while driving it - what else would they be able to see above and beyond what they see when the customer brings it in? Nothing at all - it would just be a broken belt.

Oh I complete agree that it should be looked at more directly. My entire point was that in certain situations where like what you've been told, it's such a bizarre uncommon issue that patience is required as the dealer has to bring Ford in and they send an engineer and it turns into a bureaucratic mess. Ford won't authorize anyone anywhere to simply throw parts at it. You have to walk step by step and if the problem isn't cured after, then they get more heavily involved. In your case, since it's not like the belt comes off after you start it up immediately. You have to string out the issue over miles and time to get the issue to reoccur and the engineering dept involved.

You wouldn't believe the amount of false alarms and poor diagnosis's reported to that dept that are just stupid tech's not following procedure. It burdens the dept with crap cases that they don't really need to be involved in. This situation is different though. The ultimate goal is they want it fixed and done right and you happy. But procedural BS gets in the way frequently and can slow things down for you.

I'm curious to see what exactly is going on with this motor. I would bet money its the compressor was manufactured wrong.

 

[crs2879]

What they are saying about the A/C mounting sounds plausible. An engine block is a metal casting and unless the mold is perfect, flaws can occur. Maybe a mounting stud casting is a millimeter or 2 short and not easily noticeable by eyeball but doesn't take much to throw-off belt alignment. I'd be interested to hear the final outcome of the investigation but if they replace your engine, you may never hear from them again regarding what the true issue with the original motor was......

 

[MisterGT]

Quick update with some questions.

The casing of the block was "wrong" (I won't be able to get any good photos till it is put back on the lift). The connection point for the A/C compressor was cracked and leaking oil and also causing the belt to have friction. The dealership is trying to order a new engine but they said they are having trouble. They keep trying to place the order and the order keeps coming up with just a new block (implying they move everything else over). They don't want to do that (nor would I accept it that option). Any words of advice I could give the dealership so they can get this ball rolling? How long do you think is acceptable for a new engine such as this to be delivered to dealership? My fears is that this is a multi-month process due to the specialty nature of our engine. Speaking of engine change, are engines seralized to the VIN? Is this something they match when they do engine swaps? Should I be concerned about vehicle depreciation with a different engine? Thanks for the help.

 

[Jb350]

Quick update with some questions.

The casing of the block was "wrong" (I won't be able to get any good photos till it is put back on the lift). The connection point for the A/C compressor was cracked and leaking oil and also causing the belt to have friction. The dealership is trying to order a new engine but they said they are having trouble. They keep trying to place the order and the order keeps coming up with just a new block (implying they move everything else over). They don't want to do that (nor would I accept it that option). Any words of advice I could give the dealership so they can get this ball rolling? How long do you think is acceptable for a new engine such as this to be delivered to dealership? My fears is that this is a multi-month process due to the specialty nature of our engine. Speaking of engine change, are engines seralized to the VIN? Is this something they match when they do engine swaps? Should I be concerned about vehicle depreciation with a different engine? Thanks for the help.

IMO as long as it's a new engine directly from ford, and you keep documentation, there's no reason it should affect resale value in the future. As far as how long it will take, who knows lol

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