Ford Inspector for Warranty Repair-Update:Warranty Denied Claim Due to Off Road Racing

[mikedahammer]

OP all of this back and forth isn't going to get your car fixed.

Thank you for chiming in.

I finally spoke with the ESP yesterday and the lead inspector with the ESP didn’t want to discuss any of the issues I have and eventually hung up on me. Before moving on I wanted to make sure I have a complete understanding of their position and exhausted all of the resources with the ESP before moving to the next step. He directed me to the article 13 of the contract (arbitration) and said the decision is the decision and there is nothing I can say that will change it. Once the decision was made it is done.

I am working on organizing all of the information and summarizing the issues in a format that can be used across multiple avenues with supporting exhibits to support my assertions.

At this point I am going to utilize all of the relatively free resources afforded to me and will provide updates. At this point I am going to issue a letter to FordFord ESP, as well utilize the arbitration clause as directed by the ESP to go through the bbb. I also plan on filing with the Virginia consumer complaints division with the office of the attorney general.

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[stanglife]

It seems like you've been given a lot of good advice but also seems like you're doing what you were going to do anyway. Talking to the ESP and going through arbitration is what they want - this is what they do, deny deny deny. You are choosing the play their game and in the areas where they are the strongest. This is not their first rodeo. Also, filing complaints with various agencies doesn't really give you any platform in which to state your case. It's going to come down to misuse of the car in a regular persons eyes - sometimes we belive that every person is a car enthusiast, but that's definitely not the case.

 

[Egparson202]

It's going to come down to misuse of the car in a regular persons eyes - sometimes we belive that every person is a car enthusiast, but that's definitely not the case.

I’m sad to say this is where I landed too.

You can see it even in the posts on this thread. Many of the people who don’t do High Performance Driver Education events see them as misuse/abuse. I think there’s a strong case to be made, but in the court of public opinion it’s not a winner.

OP - Don’t let the naysayers deter you from following your gut. You are in the right.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I wish the op the best of luck, but unfortunately the paths chosen will be little more then an exercise in futility and frustration.

 

[mikedahammer]

It seems like you've been given a lot of good advice but also seems like you're doing what you were going to do anyway. Talking to the ESP and going through arbitration is what they want - this is what they do, deny deny deny. You are choosing the play their game and in the areas where they are the strongest. This is not their first rodeo. Also, filing complaints with various agencies doesn't really give you any platform in which to state your case. It's going to come down to misuse of the car in a regular persons eyes - sometimes we belive that every person is a car enthusiast, but that's definitely not the case.

What do you recommend? What other options am I missing?

I wish the op the best of luck, but unfortunately the paths chosen will be little more then an exercise in futility and frustration.

What other path do you have?

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I’ve been in your shoes before unfortunately and I completely get how frustrated you must be. I may have gone for arbitration immediately but most likely would have fixed the car on my dime and then gone directly to small claims court and named the multiple parties involved. I disagree with the few that think the definition of abuse would have been difficult to convince a judge of otherwise. Most magistrates do not look kindly on business’s attempting to worm out of a responsibility. The AG’s office, in my state to is a joke. Political headlines of intent is generally where they land. Your situation doesn’t feed that need. The BBB is little more then a $300 plus a year sticker on the business’s door or the icon on there business card or website. I’m guilty myself of paying them as well for my busiess in the past to for that “accredidation”. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but ultimately with the path your chosing you’ll end up in small claims court in the end most likely any way, but having extended a lot of energy and frustration. It’s easier for me to have gone a path like I suggest becaue I have the ability to buy a transmission and clutch and swap it out in a couple of hours and let the rest play out so to speak. That’s aimed at the ease I can do the actual repair, not the financial out of pocket side to it. For me personally my time is worth more then the back and forth with multiple avenues. Not sure about yours in your area but here magistrate court has a mediation before it sees the judge. I really do wish you the best and hope this situation does not become a life encompassing endeavor and you get your car back on the road. Sorry for the long post.

What do you recommend? What other options am I missing?



What other path do you have?

 

[btown93]

Alternative Idea

instead of fighting to get new trans paid for

Pay the dealer out of pocket to do the TSB again, but this time also have them replace the trigger wheel (FR3Z-7H150-A) and sensor (BR3Z-7H103-A) as well. Maybe you will get lucky and not need a transmission.

 

[MikeR397]

I’m sad to say this is where I landed too.

You can see it even in the posts on this thread. Many of the people who don’t do High Performance Driver Education events see them as misuse/abuse. I think there’s a strong case to be made, but in the court of public opinion it’s not a winner.

OP - Don’t let the naysayers deter you from following your gut. You are in the right.

I still don’t understand why people think tracking a car literally designed for the track is “misuse.” Is driving over a field in a Raptor misuse? That’s like saying it’s misuse to drive a car in the rain because water might mess up some electronics so if you ever drive in the rain once you lose all electronics warranty coverage. This tactic is not allowed, cars are made to drive in the rain. A GT350 is made and marketed as track capable. Ford sends you to free track school when you buy the car new! A raptor is made to go off road, ford likewise sends you off-road school when you buy a raptor. If you take a raptor to a track or take a Shelby to a mud trail, then that’s misuse. Not the other way around.

 

[MikeR397]

I’ve been in your shoes before unfortunately and I completely get how frustrated you must be. I may have gone for arbitration immediately but most likely would have fixed the car on my dime and then gone directly to small claims court and named the multiple parties involved. I disagree with the few that think the definition of abuse would have been difficult to convince a judge of otherwise. Most magistrates do not look kindly on business’s attempting to worm out of a responsibility. The AG’s office, in my state to is a joke. Political headlines of intent is generally where they land. Your situation doesn’t feed that need. The BBB is little more then a $300 plus a year sticker on the business’s door or the icon on there business card or website. I’m guilty myself of paying them as well for my busiess in the past to for that “accredidation”. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but ultimately with the path your chosing you’ll end up in small claims court in the end most likely any way, but having extended a lot of energy and frustration. It’s easier for me to have gone a path like I suggest becaue I have the ability to buy a transmission and clutch and swap it out in a couple of hours and let the rest play out so to speak. That’s aimed at the ease I can do the actual repair, not the financial out of pocket side to it. For me personally my time is worth more then the back and forth with multiple avenues. Not sure about yours in your area but here magistrate court has a mediation before it sees the judge. I really do wish you the best and hope this situation does not become a life encompassing endeavor and you get your car back on the road. Sorry for the long post.

Just fyi this is gonna be above the $ limit for small claims, unless you cap your claim to $5k in Virginia. This is one reason arbitration is better. No need for OP to have an attorney (unlike regular civil court Im pretty sure). Arbitration may be non-binding, but I suspect ESP will follow the arbitrators decision. If they (esp) do not, it’s such an easy slam dunk and bad faith/fraud win in civil court I think it would be easy to retain an attorney with favorable terms and you might get an even bigger punitive award . I’m sure the judge would love to hear why esp refuses to payout on their own contract’s mandatory arbitration provision just bc they lost in arbitration. That’s another claim in and of itself.

 

[Epiphany]

Alternative Idea

instead of fighting to get new trans paid for

Pay the dealer out of pocket to do the TSB again, but this time also have them replace the trigger wheel (FR3Z-7H150-A) and sensor (BR3Z-7H103-A) as well. Maybe you will get lucky and not need a transmission.

I like how you think!

 

[Egparson202]

I still don’t understand why people think tracking a car literally designed for the track is “misuse.” Is driving over a field in a Raptor misuse? That’s like saying it’s misuse to drive a car in the rain because water might mess up some electronics so if you ever drive in the rain once you lose all electronics warranty coverage. This tactic is not allowed, cars are made to drive in the rain. A GT350 is made and marketed as track capable. Ford sends you to free track school when you buy the car new! A raptor is made to go off road, ford likewise sends you off-road school when you buy a raptor. If you take a raptor to a track or take a Shelby to a mud trail, then that’s misuse. Not the other way around.

Well said. Bottom line: OP is in the right and ESP is dodging its responsibility. If the contract supports their position, the whole thing is a farce.

 

[vaeevictiss]

Im probably not the first to mention this...but why would track use void the warranty on a GT350...a purpose built track car?

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

Im probably not the first to mention this...but why would track use void the warranty on a GT350...a purpose built track car?

Because Ford sucks

 

[Egparson202]

Im probably not the first to mention this...but why would track use void the warranty on a GT350...a purpose built track car?

I really hope this doesn’t muddy the waters too much….

There probably needs to be a distinction drawn between the original warranty and the ESP. While it makes sense that they would be similar, they may not be.

My own experience: On two separate occasions Ford has covered repairs for failures that occurred on track during Drivers Ed events. In both cases I was very transparent with the dealers involved, and I’m confident Ford corporate was also aware. My car has all the race seats, harnesses and roll bar that the OP has. Nothing was done to conceal any of the safety equipment or suspension mods. There were no power mods. That helped considerably I’m sure.

The distinction many of us have been making between racing and HPDE was made clear to Ford by the dealer on my behalf. It got substantial scrutiny but they covered it. The repairs were covered by the original warranty. Ford treated me well.

That said, I did not purchase an ESP. I don’t have any firsthand knowledge, but there appears to be a significant difference in the way claims are handled.

 

[stanglife]

I really hope this doesn’t muddy the waters too much….

There probably needs to be a distinction drawn between the original warranty and the ESP. While it makes sense that they would be similar, they may not be.

My own experience: On two separate occasions Ford has covered repairs for failures that occurred on track during Drivers Ed events. In both cases I was very transparent with the dealers involved, and I’m confident Ford corporate was also aware. My car has all the races seats, harnesses and roll bar that the OP has. Nothing was done to conceal any of the safety equipment or suspension mods. There were no power mods. That helped considerably I’m sure.

The distinction many of us have been making between racing and HPDE was made clear to Ford by the dealer on my behalf. It got substantial scrutiny but they covered it. The repairs were covered by the original warranty. Ford treated me well.

That said, I did not purchase an ESP. I don’t have any firsthand knowledge, but there appears to be a significant difference in the way claims are handled.

Just to put another point out there... Ford seemed to have incentive to repair their "track" cars while they were still producing them and needed to sell them. Now that the very last of the 2020s are going out of their 3/36 and potentially (not mine!) into an ESP - the whole exercise is going to be about cost saving a la - any insurance or warranty company.

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