Ford Inspector for Warranty Repair-Update:Warranty Denied Claim Due to Off Road Racing

[Egparson202]

It's interesting to me, since usually it seems like ESP pays out without much trouble for most things.

IMO Ford should be applying pressure in these situations for GT350/500 owners. They don't seem to understand that satisfying halo customers is paramount, even if it's expensive (which is on them in the first place). Telling them to pound sand to save a dollar today means a whole lot of dollars lost tomorrow...

You nailed it. I love my Shelby, but it’s not an unbreakable loyalty. Ford needs to love me back.

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[passwords]

This topic was glossed over throughout the thread and I honestly didn’t know the answer before yesterday.

OP’s ESP contract is with Ford Motor Service Company. The other names used for the ESP company like Ford Protect, Ford Lincoln ESP, etc. are all just either descriptive terms or d/b/a aliases. I reviewed the Ford 2022 10-K filing last night. In Exhibit 21, page 202 of the 10-K filing, Ford Motor Service Company is listed as a company with Ford ownership significant enough that it’s incorporated into the Ford financial statements - it’s most likely a wholly owned subsidiary. Regardless, from a reputation perspective, the Ford ESP company is still Ford. They can try to disassociate from Ford all they want and legally there is separation. But it’s still Ford, and we should treat it as such from a customer expectation perspective.

Now this is where we need a corporate lawyer to chime in. Ford Motor Service Company does not have a legal structure designator like Inc., LLC, LP, Corporation, etc. - it’s just Ford Motor Service Company. It is shown as being headquartered in Michigan. Does anyone know how a company like Ford Motor Service Company can issue an ESP contract without identifying its legal structure?

 

[jmn444]

Now this is where we need a corporate lawyer to chime in. Ford Motor Service Company does not have a legal structure designator like Inc., LLC, LP, Corporation, etc. - it’s just Ford Motor Service Company. It is shown as being headquartered in Michigan. Does anyone know how a company like Ford Motor Service Company can issue an ESP contract without identifying its legal structure?

I'm almost certain that "Company" fills that requirement legally

 

[Blwnsmoke]

Right - and that is the problem as outlined - doesn't matter why or how the mechanical part failed (transmission), but if the vehicle falls into any other category specified in that doc that would be cause for denial of claim - it seems the Inspector (in this specific case) "made the shoe fit" to deny the claim based on the mods done to the vehicle.... even though the car wasn't "raced" and even though the other mods had absolutely NO bearing on the mechanical failure.

It's a trash warranty, period.

In fact reading the additional docs the OP posted, that ESP (like many others) started the day the car was invoiced - meaning it ran concurrently with the 3/36 and the 5/60. Any mechanical repairs (drivetrain) necessitated during the 3/36 would have been covered by the 3/36 not the ESP. Once the 3/36 expired, any subsequent mechanical repairs (drivetrain) would come under the 5/60, not the ESP. Only AFTER the 3/36 and 5/60 was depleted by expiration of miles or years (which ever came first) would the ESP kick in.

Many buyers of these "extended" warranties do not know that and are not told that. With that said, I don't know how many years/miles this particular ESP was for, but my guess is at this stage, there isn't much left of it going by years, as I believe the longest term available was 7 or 8 years (100k or 120k miles)? If the plan was for anything below 7 years, there isn't much remaining because it will expire quicker than the miles accumulated.

This is why I've always said to do due diligence when buying any ESP, it's not only the fine print or what isn't covered to be concerned about, but that many are unaware when buying a new car and a new ESP Plan at that time of sale, it runs concurrently with already (2) comprehensive factory backed Warranties.

Ford ESP covers my rentals from day 1 so part of the coverage does infact cover things, not just when your b2b runs out.

I've had a few thousand dollars in rentals covered by my ESP across my 5 Fords still under the factory warranty.

 

[MAGS1]

This topic was glossed over throughout the thread and I honestly didn’t know the answer before yesterday.

OP’s ESP contract is with Ford Motor Service Company. The other names used for the ESP company like Ford Protect, Ford Lincoln ESP, etc. are all just either descriptive terms or d/b/a aliases. I reviewed the Ford 2022 10-K filing last night. In Exhibit 21, page 202 of the 10-K filing, Ford Motor Service Company is listed as a company with Ford ownership significant enough that it’s incorporated into the Ford financial statements - it’s most likely a wholly owned subsidiary. Regardless, from a reputation perspective, the Ford ESP company is still Ford. They can try to disassociate from Ford all they want and legally there is separation. But it’s still Ford, and we should treat it as such from a customer expectation perspective.

Now this is where we need a corporate lawyer to chime in. Ford Motor Service Company does not have a legal structure designator like Inc., LLC, LP, Corporation, etc. - it’s just Ford Motor Service Company. It is shown as being headquartered in Michigan. Does anyone know how a company like Ford Motor Service Company can issue an ESP contract without identifying its legal structure?

Company covers it. Just like the parent company is Ford Motor Company (no other designators).

 

[THX 138]

It has nothing to do with "company" being in the name.

To answer the question, though, Ford Motor Service Company is a corporation formed in Michigan and registered to do business in multiple states. See this link, or do a search on the Michigan Secretary of State's website. (Yes, I'm a corporate attorney working in-house for a large company for the past 15 years.)

 

[mikedahammer]

It has nothing to do with "company" being in the name.

To answer the question, though, Ford Motor Service Company is a corporation formed in Michigan and registered to do business in multiple states. See this link, or do a search on the Michigan Secretary of State's website. (Yes, I'm a corporate attorney working in-house for a large company for the past 15 years.)

This is correct. From what I have gathered the ESP is located in Florida. I believe that the attached is the entity that deals with the ESP and is owned by Ford. The contract does disclose a bunch of other make and models of vehicles in the contract that they do not cover so it definitely is some national insurer of some sort. I don’t have any official proof of that it is but I am working on it.

I reached out to the ESP yesterday and the personal handling my case was not available and their supervisor did not honor my request for a call back. I will try again today. I am happy to ask them any questions and will ask them about their legal structure and ownership. I doubt they will give me any info but I can ask.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

Have you requested the argitration? Sorry if I missed it.

This is correct. From what I have gathered the ESP is located in Florida. I believe that the attached is the entity that deals with the ESP and is owned by Ford. The contract does disclose a bunch of other make and models of vehicles in the contract that they do not cover so it definitely is some national insurer of some sort. I don’t have any official proof of that it is but I am working on it.

I reached out to the ESP yesterday and the personal handling my case was not available and their supervisor did not honor my request for a call back. I will try again today. I am happy to ask them any questions and will ask them about their legal structure and ownership. I doubt they will give me any info but I can ask.

 

[mikedahammer]

Have you requested the argitration? Sorry if I missed it.

No. I am still trying to work through it with them. I think by the end of the next week I should know where I stand. They are impossible to get a call back from. I have a bunch of questions and clarifications I need them to respond to.

 

[Ole Texan]

Mike, put your questions in writing. Ask for written response. Send to both addresses you have. Follow up with email with same request. You need to get hard copy trail of their response. No ‘he said-she said’ as the process moves forward.

 

[mikedahammer]

Mike, put your questions in writing. Ask for written response. Send to both addresses you have. Follow up with email with same request. You need to get hard copy trail of their response. No ‘he said-she said’ as the process moves forward.

Thank you, and I agree. Once I have an opportunity to discuss and get a better understanding of their exact position they are taking and if their disposition is the only thing they are will to go on record with or see if they would like to issue a written response. They reference recorded calls in their disposition of the claim which is great for me -- in writing they said I participated in a race school -- which I never said -- so let's get those recorded calls out in the open. The tapes won't favor them in this situation.

If they do not want to issue a written response above what they have already given me, then I will take their verbal responses to my questions and regurgitate my concerns and send a demand letter for them to address with a written response. I will send the letter (if necessary) to Ford headquarters, Ford Customer support, and Ford ESP. If no response is tendered then I will file with all of the appropriate authorities.

I not only want my car fixed, but I also want acknowledgement that I can use it for HPDE. I want to know that once repaired I can use the vehicle where I please as long as the car is operated within the manufacturer's specifications - that is my biggest complaint - I never overdrove the car beyond the manufacturer's posted and limited RPMS, speed, etc.

 

[Tomster]

I not only want my car fixed, but I also want acknowledgement that I can use it for HPDE. I want to know that once repaired I can use the vehicle where I please as long as the car is operated within the manufacturer's specifications - that is my biggest complaint - I never overdrove the car beyond the manufacturer's posted and limited RPMS, speed, etc.

As much as I think you are right here, I don't think you will ever get anything out of them like that. You have the contract and they will try to use it against you the next time this happens.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Thank you, and I agree. Once I have an opportunity to discuss and get a better understanding of their exact position they are taking and if their disposition is the only thing they are will to go on record with or see if they would like to issue a written response. They reference recorded calls in their disposition of the claim which is great for me -- in writing they said I participated in a race school -- which I never said -- so let's get those recorded calls out in the open. The tapes won't favor them in this situation.

If they do not want to issue a written response above what they have already given me, then I will take their verbal responses to my questions and regurgitate my concerns and send a demand letter for them to address with a written response. I will send the letter (if necessary) to Ford headquarters, Ford Customer support, and Ford ESP. If no response is tendered then I will file with all of the appropriate authorities.

I not only want my car fixed, but I also want acknowledgement that I can use it for HPDE. I want to know that once repaired I can use the vehicle where I please as long as the car is operated within the manufacturer's specifications - that is my biggest complaint - I never overdrove the car beyond the manufacturer's posted and limited RPMS, speed, etc.

Be careful with the whole "recorded calls" thing in the sense that even though many of these companies state that in their automated telephone pick up, they don't record jack.... So just don't be reliant on their "recorded" session, because you don't want it to bite you in the ass if you say "well it was recorded by you on X-day/date", then they'll come up with some excuse as to the system didn't record it or they only retain recorded convos for X-interval or that they lost it in some data crash... Trust NO ONE.

The situation you're in, you should record the conversation - in some States you have to let the other party know you are doing it, some you do not. You can mention it nonchalantly such as "I know your calls are recorded, it's a good practice, I do the same" - and you've made the awareness the call is being recorded. Regardless if your State allows it or not, I would start every call on speaker and have your other mobile device (tablet etc) recording the entire convo.

As Old Texan also stated above - other than the verbal discussion which unless recorded - doesn't hold up because it's always a he/she/they said.... For full protection, you must do things via either old fashioned mail OR by emails to get it all documented. Documentation is the back up needed to prove what questions were asked, what those answers were and what went unanswered or ignored. In all of your correspondence always reference any Case #, vehicle VIN, dates for last XYZ event, and any current work order # it is attached to - along with very detailed questions outlined in bullet format - not all mashed together in sentences or paragraphs.

I helped quite a few folks out on this site with successful RAV Buy backs, been there done it myself without the need for any Attorney or BBB claim. I won against Ford without anyone else helping me. In fact when I did it back in 2016, there wasn't jack on this site with that info or help. Anything I found online via a google was just BS whiners not making any headway with XYZ vehicle manufacturer.

I had TONS of factual back up from the Service Center work orders, to the times/dates I made any calls plus the duration of those calls, and a shit ton of emails between me, multiple people at Ford RAV, multiple Supervisors at RAV, at the Dealership, etc.. I always requested email addresses and said "I need to converse via email due to my schedule that doesn't allow me sufficient time to sit on a phone". I also retained and used ANY prior repair history that was related to the ongoing warranty claim. I even checked my AG's site and knew MY rights - and knew my State's Buy Back/Lemon Law process better than their own Ford people. All of that back up literally was in a folder that was over 3" thick. It took me a lot of fighting, yes it was very frustrating, and it took literally over 1 year before finally getting a brand new 2018 for my 2016. I bought the 2016 brand new in Dec 2015, I went back and forth with multiple service visits and Ford over my 2016; my case wasn't settled until Feb 2018 and due to my unique case, my 2018 replacement was a Special Order because there were barely any 2018's out at the time that were an exact match to the replacement I wanted (and wasn't backing down from what I wanted). The 2016 was at 2 Ford Dealers in the shop more times than I actually had time to own it. Out of that process and due to my aggressive but professional demeanor through the whole ordeal, I was given both the Ford Extended Warranty and Maintenance Plans as well as refunded $$$ for the months I didn't even have the car in my possession. I also probably had driven nearly every brand new Ford as a loaner during that year... it was crazy but I prevailed because I wasn't backing down and I had the facts to bolster my position against Ford.

Point being - without a VERY DETAILED claim with documentation and FACTS, some people won't win. If you're saving EVERYTHING, and the fact that the Dealership had serviced the car before AND knew it's history with you, there should not be a question of the current claim or being denied if the failure falls within the mechanical coverage provisions (EXCLUDING all of the damn hokie ESP verbiage we've already discussed in this thread).

Again, aside from the terminology in that ESP that basically excludes nearly ANYTHING that the Inspector made fit as a possible exclusion reason to deny you (and who knows how many others) - they are hoping you will get tired and you will walk away.

What you can do is if your local news station has one of those "On your side" Teams that helps people get reimbursement for sham business operations, consumer wrongs, and or refund due to XYZ - you should reach out to them. See if they would take on your concerns. They will go "door to door" so to speak inquiring to speak to higher ups and inquire as to why this is happening. They will put all the bad players in the limelight and show the public how ESP's are used against those who bought such a plan thinking they would benefit from one, but can't due to all of the loopholes made available to deny a claim.

 

[Zooks527]

- 7e (4) Any part designated for “off road” only that is not installed by the manufacturer including but not limited to . . . roll bars . . . (Also note in this same paragraph it notates the use of “oversized tires”, while the tires mentioned that were on the OP’s vehicle were not “oversized”, they fall into the classification of the “but not limited to”… because they are not what the vehicle was produced/sold with from Ford).

Go back and read 7e(4) again. It doesn't say that installation of "off-road" parts or a roll bar voids the ESP, it says that the ESP doesn't cover "off-road" parts or roll bars that aren't installed by the manufacturer.

 

[LikeMike]

Words are everything. They define meaning to avoid misunderstandings. That is why we have contracts so that agreements can be enforced.

The OP used the car in accordance with the design, manufacture, and intended use of the vehicle. The folks who sell these ESPs need to stop doing so if they do not intend to honor the agreement.

OP all of this back and forth isn't going to get your car fixed. @Tomster and @Cobra Jet have provided you with good information.

As other suggested gather as much supporting evidence as possible, and file a small claims. You may also need to bring a mechanic. You screwed up taking a "racing" prepped vehicle to an HDPE and trying to put a claim in.

However it is not yet over, file the claim. If ESP does not have a standing office in Virginia, their registered agent is CT Corporation. You can contact them for confirmation. Send them all legal correspondence and it will be forwarded to Ford. Your small claim should list Ford but with the registered agent address.

CT Corporation
(804) 533-6901
4701 Cox Rd #285, Glen Allen, VA 23060

So skip the arbitration, you have a right to skip/not engage in it, regardless of what the contract states. After you submit you will be contacted by Ford Executive support prior to the trial date and they will talk with you again but with legal.

I've sued several corporations the past few years, the ONLY company where it wasn't resolved in my favor pre-lawsuit was Apple. They actually flew in a district manager and fought my case over a $300 headphone. So do note that it is a possibility that while they wont bring a bar licensed lawyer they can indeed be firm on their stance and bring legal representation, managers, etc. It wont be a random person. Judges will also put the burden on you as to why your racing prepped vehicle should be covered. If I were you id try and pull driving logs and go with the angle qouted but you HAVE to bring PROOF.

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