First track day in the R

[jakermc]

What would this be (improper technique)? Are you seriously trying to suggest that someone is going to 2 foot their GT350 around a track?

Not at all. Braking technique is one of the hardest things to learn and one of the last skills to be mastered. Most people need to spend time unlearning a brake technique that works on the street but not on the track. Most common problems I've seen when coaching people:

* Braking too early, and even more common, releasing the brakes too late.

* Long, slow application of the brake pedal as opposed to a quick punch that ends with threshold braking. Beginners roll into brake zones as though they are approaching a red light. Experienced drivers slow the car quickly by reaching threshold braking.

* Inability to keep constant pressure on brake pedal while heal and toe downshifting. Data shows a lift off the pedal (but still braking) and then reapplication of the brake pressure.

All of these things extend brake zones and add heat to the system.

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[J_Maher_AMG]

Why do I seem to remember a GT350 instrumented test versus a Chevy product where the brakes in the GT350 were glazed from being used too hard the day before? I know it's not the same thing as fade, but it's another symptom of the brakes getting hot from track use. The 60-0 on the GT350 was way out of line compared to the normal time.

Good point, and you are right. It was from a CarandDriver test when they pitted the non-R against the Z51 Corvette. 70-0 was measured in like 170ft compared to its normaly 154ish range that it achieved prior.

I would expect though that the brakes as they get worn down more and more to be a little less efficient. Would be much worse if you continually thought "hey my brakes are still great" and all of sudden you had no brakes :lol:

But that may have very well been a car that was previously driven by someone mis-using them as well. A lot of people from what I have read tend to not brake as hard as they should/can but brake earlier and less intensely over a longer duration which is worse on your pads in regards to heat production.

Considering though over the course of all the laps that Pobst himself has done, I am a firm believer that the stock braking system is fully competent. With just fluid as is in the Track Attack Cars I found zero fade as well, and I was performing threshold braking in every single braking zone.

 

[jakermc]

A lot of people from what I have read tend to not brake as hard as they should/can but brake earlier and less intensely over a longer duration which is worse on your pads in regards to heat production.

You described this better than I did. Well said.

 

[CSL]

Fade is a somewhat subjective term. People most often think of fluid fade, but mechanical and friction fade are also types of fade you can experience. On my stock pads I did experience some friction fade as the pads wore down and got hot toward the end of sessions that were at the end of the day. The culprit was a degradation of bite rather than an inconsistent pedal. The braking system itself is phenoenal, but it needs a track worthy pad for track driving once you start pushing the car a bit. The stock pads are the best "street" pads I have used on track, but they're not track pads. There is no magic brake pad that can do both well.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

You described this better than I did. Well said.

I think you did just fine! You also highlighted a couple of other areas that most don't consider either, and concerning the heel-toe affect I wasn't even aware of myself :cheers:

 

[honeybadger]

I will explain further. Billy Johnson, who was involved in the development of the car, believes that the stock system will not experience brake fade anywhere under normal conditions. I had this conversation with him 2 weekends ago before taking to the track in 93 degree weather on a track with 2 consecutive hard braking zones that will induce fade in lesser prepared cars.

Certainly a poorly driven car can induce fade as a result of improper braking technique, but given the experience of the OP that did not seem to be a likely cause.

Completely agree, BUT we all know Randy Pobst is no slouch in the driving department, and the car was tested on Laguna Seca which is one of the hardest tracks, if not the hardest, on a car's braking system in the US. Also had no issues at Chuckwalla or Willow Springs when they tested the 350 and R at them.

I never thought about pad thickness when I posted prior, but I would assume the more they are worn towards the end of their life some fade could be introduced. But if guys are like that aren't getting fade, and lets face it they are driving the cars FAR harder than anyone on this forum, then there logically shouldn't be any issues for any of us :shrug:

IMO a change to better brake fluid and OP should have all the braking he'd ever need. Those Raybestos pads that others are talking about sound pretty tempting though if they last much longer, but the squealing would get annoying on a primarily street driven car I think.

No disagreement from me. I just feel like I keep hearing absolute statements like the 350 doesn’t get any form on brake fade. I just wanted to point out that this is definitely not the case as even I’ve gotten brake fade (most likely do to poor technique).

No complaints here on the overall braking package. It’s incredible and am very with it. I changed to G-Loc pads and have not had fade thus far.

:cheers:

 

[Stuntman]

Long pedal = boiled fluid, not a faded pad. Put SRF in it an you'll be good to go. The stock pads don't last forever but they won't "fade" either (the point where the car loses significant deceleration ability and is no longer able to engage ABS.).

The Ford Racing School uses stock pads in their GT350s and the instructors there said the stick pads don't fade (they use SRF). They also get all walks of life in terms of driver experience, ability, and how abusive they are to brakes, and those cars hold up remarkably well.

 

[torque124]

If you experience brake fade in the GT350 obviously you need to back off your brakes. Car is telling you something.... There is a component that reacts in a certain way due to driver actions... Easy peasy.

Change your lap plan to brake for shorter periods, and you'll be fine.

 

[CSL]

Long pedal = boiled fluid, not a faded pad. Put SRF in it an you'll be good to go. The stock pads don't last forever but they won't "fade" either (the point where the car loses significant deceleration ability and is no longer able to engage ABS.).

The Ford Racing School uses stock pads in their GT350s and the instructors there said the stick pads don't fade (they use SRF). They also get all walks of life in terms of driver experience, ability, and how abusive they are to brakes, and those cars hold up remarkably well.

My real world experience with stock pads does not fully meet your definition of fade, but my deceleration ability was certainly impacted which required a longer braking zone as my pads wore and got hot.

Also, the information I and few others got from the Ford Racing School is they switched from the stock pad to a Pagid pad. I went last August, so it was before then that a switch was made.

Regarding fluid, I tried the Amsoil DOT4 fluid this season since I use their other stuff and it has worked well. Not too much feedback out there on this fluid so figured I'd offer my experience with it.

 

[Zitrosounds]

No disagreement from me. I just feel like I keep hearing absolute statements like the 350 doesn’t get any form on brake fade. I just wanted to point out that this is definitely not the case as even I’ve gotten brake fade (most likely do to poor technique).

No complaints here on the overall braking package. It’s incredible and am very with it. I changed to G-Loc pads and have not had fade thus far.

:cheers:

I agree!!!! Any brake system can have fade. ESPECIALLY when you over use them. The fastest drivers are the best on the brakes but not necessarily because they use them the most rather it's the application. I can only speak from my experience in my ol track pack and the track pack @ FRPS. I run just a lil faster than average lap times at Barber MSP and also ran fairly quick laps in Utah with 100° temps and no fade.

 

[Zitrosounds]

My real world experience with stock pads does not fully meet your definition of fade, but my deceleration ability was certainly impacted which required a longer braking zone as my pads wore and got hot.

Also, the information I and few others got from the Ford Racing School is they switched from the stock pad to a Pagid pad. I went last August, so it was before then that a switch was made.

I was told stock pads with SRF. Attended in July 2017.

 

[Lurker_350]

But that may have very well been a car that was previously driven by someone mis-using them as well. A lot of people from what I have read tend to not brake as hard as they should/can but brake earlier and less intensely over a longer duration which is worse on your pads in regards to heat production.

That must have been my issue at the Track Attack. I wondered why I felt some fade (not severe) and thought it must be because I was going so fast! :headbonk:

Instructor was telling me to hit the brakes harder initially, but I didn't connect the dots between duration and fade since I was thinking it would take the same amount of energy to stop the car, whether done slowly or quickly.

Thank you and [MENTION=28098]jakermc[/MENTION] for the explanation.

 

[CSL]

I was told stock pads with SRF. Attended in July 2017.

Just now confirmed with one of the Ford Racing School instructors that stock pads are currently being used on the 350s. Sorry for any misinformation.

 

[jpindustrie]

Instructor was telling me to hit the brakes harder initially, but I didn't connect the dots between duration and fade since I was thinking it would take the same amount of energy to stop the car, whether done slowly or quickly.

Its funny you mention that because during my track attack session I really tried to apply the hard brakes then threshold them to the corner technique as they were emphasizing in the classroom and as you're describing. I remember he said I was 'getting there' but also countered with 'now, you don't want to grenade the brakes on the initial punch either" lol

 

[Zitrosounds]

Not at all. Braking technique is one of the hardest things to learn and one of the last skills to be mastered. Most people need to spend time unlearning a brake technique that works on the street but not on the track. Most common problems I've seen when coaching people:

* Braking too early, and even more common, releasing the brakes too late.

* Long, slow application of the brake pedal as opposed to a quick punch that ends with threshold braking. Beginners roll into brake zones as though they are approaching a red light. Experienced drivers slow the car quickly by reaching threshold braking.

* Inability to keep constant pressure on brake pedal while heal and toe downshifting. Data shows a lift off the pedal (but still braking) and then reapplication of the brake pressure.

All of these things extend brake zones and add heat to the system.

Stab and SQEEEEEEEZE!!!

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