400 pound weight loss??

[w3rkn]

You were talking about how "bloated" the M4 is. Also the carbon roofed 6MT E92s weigh ~3,500lbs. The sunroof equipped (+45) e90s with a DCT (+45lbs) with tech & cold weather packages can weigh over 3,700lbs.


E36s are awesome cars. The 321hp euro version is one of the best IMO. Unfortunately we got a crappy S50/52 version. I'm eager to drive an M4 that finally gives the M some torque, but despite the e90/92s weight, IMO it is the most neutral and composed M3 with enough power to have fun with.

Right, we were talking about the M4, & how bloated it is. Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Just because you didn't find the E92 bloated, doesn't mean other won't find this M4 bloated... even if it is much lighter.

Unless it near to 3,000lbs, it is "bloated". I guess that is what you don't seem to understand. That is also why many here keep mentioning the new M2 coming, because supposedly it won't be "bloated" and should come in much lighter than the M235i.

Very simple concept & mentioned many times over, that Many do not want an M4, due to it's heft. Or a Mustang.

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[Grimace427]

Unless it near to 3,000lbs, it is "bloated".

In your opinion. I do not share your opinion.

 

[stangray11]

If 3000lbs and up is bloated, you better start looking for a pre-94 Mustang. Not saying I disagree with you but even the diminutive Fox bodies tipped the scales over 3,000 in some years and in some trims. It's am impossible thing to ask for in this day and age. Even if they put as much aluminum as the F150 I'm not sure they could get it there. That said, I'd still like to think 3300 for the I4 is doable.

87 V8: Hatchback 3,058; Notchback 3,000
88 V8: Hatchback 3,193
89 V8: Hatchback 3,194
90 V8: Hatchback 2,715; Notchback 2,715
91 V8: Hatchback 3,102; GT Hatchback 3,191; Coupe 3,037
92 V8: Hatchback 3,069; GT Hatchback 3,144; Coupe 3,010
93 V8: Hatchback 3,096; GT Hatchback 3,144; Coupe 3,035

94 V8: Coupe 3,258; Cobra 3,365
95 V8: Coupe 3,280; GTS 3,246; Cobra 3,354

 

[Khell86]

I'll eat 700 pounds of aluminum if this claim happens (see quote below). Who comes up with this stuff?



Of course what is "about 30 mpg"? 21, 22, 25 if they round up?

Good to see the weight loss but some people are entirely over-optimistic.

These estimates are stemming from the rumored 700 lb weight loss and the use of the new "Nano" ecoboost motor. Supposedly its a 2.7L V6 rated at 320 hp and 370 lb/tq. Pretty impressive for such a small motor.

I dont know if i can see the F-150 hitting 30 mpg on the highway but i can definitely see it out doing ram's 25 mpg with the weight loss and new motor.

 

[Free Agent]

These estimates are stemming from the rumored 700 lb weight loss and the use of the new "Nano" ecoboost motor. Supposedly its a 2.7L V6 rated at 320 hp and 370 lb/tq. Pretty impressive for such a small motor.

I dont know if i can see the F-150 hitting 30 mpg on the highway but i can definitely see it out doing ram's 25 mpg with the weight loss and new motor.

I could see the 25-26 highway. Its just the pie in the sky 30 mpg quote I saw that is not going to happen.

People hear those quotes, get unreasonable expectations and when the shoe drops and it is far less than what they were misled to believe they are disappointed and end up ragging on it unfairly because they were foolish.

 

[Stuntman]

Right, we were talking about the M4, & how bloated it is. Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Just because you didn't find the E92 bloated, doesn't mean other won't find this M4 bloated... even if it is much lighter.

Unless it near to 3,000lbs, it is "bloated". I guess that is what you don't seem to understand. That is also why many here keep mentioning the new M2 coming, because supposedly it won't be "bloated" and should come in much lighter than the M235i.

Very simple concept & mentioned many times over, that Many do not want an M4, due to it's heft. Or a Mustang.

Lol. By your definition, pretty much everything is "bloated" -every generation M3 (except the E30), the new 991 GT3, 458 Italia, MP4-12C, R8, C7, etc...

Due to safety and comfort standards, cars have been getting heavier for a very long time, light safety is expensive and comfort is heavy, but these are driving forces behind new car models -which I guess you are struggling to understand. But thankfully cars are starting to get lighter in recent models. I've never disputed that the E92 is heavy, but so is a GTR and both perform remarkably well despite their weight and are faster on track than their predecessors. I'm excited that the M4 is going to be quite a bit lighter than the E9X and it should perform quite a bit better.

Hopefully with advances in technology, composites will become less expensive and cars will be stronger and lighter at a more affordable cost.

 

[Pablo GT350]

Dear Bloated,
Get a Cayman S if you want a 3000lb car. Handles great yes but underpowered and overpriced in my humble opinion.

My e46 M3 weighed 3400lbs without using exotic materials. That seems tougher to achieve with todays safety standards and the content many buyers expect.

Personally if the GT comes in anywhere close to 3500lbs and close to 450hp I don't see how you can realistically complain. What you are going to buy for anywhere close to 37k that can match that.

 

[86GT]

If 3000lbs and up is bloated, you better start looking for a pre-94 Mustang. Not saying I disagree with you but even the diminutive Fox bodies tipped the scales over 3,000 in some years and in some trims. It's am impossible thing to ask for in this day and age. Even if they put as much aluminum as the F150 I'm not sure they could get it there. That said, I'd still like to think 3300 for the I4 is doable.

87 V8: Hatchback 3,058; Notchback 3,000
88 V8: Hatchback 3,193
89 V8: Hatchback 3,194
90 V8: Hatchback 2,715; Notchback 2,715
91 V8: Hatchback 3,102; GT Hatchback 3,191; Coupe 3,037
92 V8: Hatchback 3,069; GT Hatchback 3,144; Coupe 3,010
93 V8: Hatchback 3,096; GT Hatchback 3,144; Coupe 3,035


94 V8: Coupe 3,258; Cobra 3,365
95 V8: Coupe 3,280; GTS 3,246; Cobra 3,354

The '90 numbers are 4 cylinders but yeah, those weights are all pretty much spot on. My '86 fox is a T-Top hatch loaded with every factory option and on a half tank of gas it weighed 3,086 lbs on a calibrated race scale.

Anyone saying that a car weighing >3000lb is bloated just doesn't know what they're talking about. Shit, the new Focus ST weighs 3150lbs. If the 2.3T Mustang can come in around 3,300lbs and the GT around 3500lbs that will be very impressive and far from bloated

 

[eurospeed]

So here's my short rant. Cars today *are* bloated...yes, even the new M4. Average sized vehicles should not be close to 3000 lb. As much as we would like to claim the weight increase is all due to increasing safety standards to feel good about the extra fat, that's not it.

1) Engineering - Innovation is continuously stifled by reducing budgets and increasing schedule pressures. Thinking outside of the box is not like it used to be. Materials, manufacturing processes, and analytical tools have made great strides, but implementation of that new tech is very slow on a large scale.

2) Gadgets - Sorry Millennials, but you guys grew up with pacifiers in one hand and iPods in the other. Marketing loves this and the payout is big so gadgets eventually become mainstream instead of an option.

3) Automatic Everything - Sorry Baby Boomers, you are next. Auto this, nanny that, etc. That's not safety, they're just an excuse to not learn how to perform due diligence when driving. Speaking of cutting fat, Jay Leno made a great comment about bloated electric seats in his Mustang preview.

4) Sound - I enjoy music, but I enjoy my engine more. I don't need 10+ speakers, satellite radio, etc. Two or four quality speakers would be more than adequate. Plus, please stop synthetically piping the sound back into the cabin just because you started out with using to many deadening materials. NVH is important, yes, but did I mention I enjoy hearing my engine?

5) Size - Big car, big wheels. Part of the American culture I suppose. Large diameter wheels look OK but perform poorly and should be limited to a size big enough to just clear the brake calipers. Even small cars are big today - super size me.

Oddly enough, today's new regulations (and fuel crunch) may be just the things needed to force auto manufacturers into (re)learning new weight savings techniques. For starters, in 2015 the EU has imposed strict CO2 limits and of course, we all know of the continually demanding CAFE requirements. There is hope yet...

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

So here's my short rant. Cars today *are* bloated...yes, even the new M4. Average sized vehicles should not be close to 3000 lb. As much as we would like to claim the weight increase is all due to increasing safety standards to feel good about the extra fat, that's not it.

1) Engineering - Innovation is continuously stifled by reducing budgets and increasing schedule pressures. Thinking outside of the box is not like it used to be. Materials, manufacturing processes, and analytical tools have made great strides, but implementation of that new tech is very slow on a large scale.

2) Gadgets - Sorry Millennials, but you guys grew up with pacifiers in one hand and iPods in the other. Marketing loves this and the payout is big so gadgets eventually become mainstream instead of an option.

3) Automatic Everything - Sorry Baby Boomers, you are next. Auto this, nanny that, etc. That's not safety, they're just an excuse to not learn how to perform due diligence when driving. Speaking of cutting fat, Jay Leno made a great comment about bloated electric seats in his Mustang preview.

4) Sound - I enjoy music, but I enjoy my engine more. I don't need 10+ speakers, satellite radio, etc. Two or four quality speakers would be more than adequate. Plus, please stop synthetically piping the sound back into the cabin just because you started out with using to many deadening materials. NVH is important, yes, but did I mention I enjoy hearing my engine?

5) Size - Big car, big wheels. Part of the American culture I suppose. Large diameter wheels look OK but perform poorly and should be limited to a size big enough to just clear the brake calipers. Even small cars are big today - super size me.

Oddly enough, today's new regulations (and fuel crunch) may be just the things needed to force auto manufacturers into (re)learning new weight savings techniques. For starters, in 2015 the EU has imposed strict CO2 limits and of course, we all know of the continually demanding CAFE requirements. There is hope yet...

So.......you won't buying a 2015 Mustang I guess.

 

[eurospeed]

So.......you won't buying a 2015 Mustang I guess.

Incorrect. I may likely buy a 2015 Mustang as it is currently on my short list. Life is all about compromises and I may just have to deal with additional weight, but it doesn't mean I can't be vocal about it and push for an even better next generation.

 

[Dirk McGurck]

Incorrect. I may likely buy a 2015 Mustang as it is currently on my short list. Life is all about compromises and I may just have to deal with additional weight, but it doesn't mean I can't be vocal about it and push for an even better next generation.

Truth.

 

[Pitch]

Incorrect. I may likely buy a 2015 Mustang as it is currently on my short list. Life is all about compromises and I may just have to deal with additional weight, but it doesn't mean I can't be vocal about it and push for an even better next generation.

Yes. I'm sure ford developers will remember sifting through 5 pages of comments on a random forum in 6 years and make the next gen lighter

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[scottpe]

Life is all about compromises and I may just have to deal with additional weight, but it doesn't mean I can't be vocal about it and push for an even better next generation.

Funny that you're ranting in an effort push for a better next generation, considering Ford haven't even released the weight specs for this generation yet. ;)

But as you already alluded to, this isn't really a Mustang issue, or even a Ford issue...it's consistent across the industry.

The good news is, with tighter fuel economy regulations in the coming years, car makers will be forced to consider weight more and more in their designs. This should also spur more research into new and lighter materials and cheaper manufacturing processes for them.

Oh, and the gadgets and gizmos in modern cars are here to stay my friend. Get used to them. Time marches on, and so does technology right along with it. Reality is, we live in a world that is constantly in search of new ways to make life more convenient, comfortable and entertaining...

 

[Stuntman]

So here's my short rant. Cars today *are* bloated...yes, even the new M4. Average sized vehicles should not be close to 3000 lb. As much as we would like to claim the weight increase is all due to increasing safety standards to feel good about the extra fat, that's not it.

1) Engineering - Innovation is continuously stifled by reducing budgets and increasing schedule pressures. Thinking outside of the box is not like it used to be. Materials, manufacturing processes, and analytical tools have made great strides, but implementation of that new tech is very slow on a large scale.

2) Gadgets - Sorry Millennials, but you guys grew up with pacifiers in one hand and iPods in the other. Marketing loves this and the payout is big so gadgets eventually become mainstream instead of an option.

3) Automatic Everything - Sorry Baby Boomers, you are next. Auto this, nanny that, etc. That's not safety, they're just an excuse to not learn how to perform due diligence when driving. Speaking of cutting fat, Jay Leno made a great comment about bloated electric seats in his Mustang preview.

4) Sound - I enjoy music, but I enjoy my engine more. I don't need 10+ speakers, satellite radio, etc. Two or four quality speakers would be more than adequate. Plus, please stop synthetically piping the sound back into the cabin just because you started out with using to many deadening materials. NVH is important, yes, but did I mention I enjoy hearing my engine?

5) Size - Big car, big wheels. Part of the American culture I suppose. Large diameter wheels look OK but perform poorly and should be limited to a size big enough to just clear the brake calipers. Even small cars are big today - super size me.

Oddly enough, today's new regulations (and fuel crunch) may be just the things needed to force auto manufacturers into (re)learning new weight savings techniques. For starters, in 2015 the EU has imposed strict CO2 limits and of course, we all know of the continually demanding CAFE requirements. There is hope yet...

You have some good points about all the gadgets and gizmos but that is not changing anytime soon. The outcry from going to manual seats, hand-crank windows, non power door locks, non adjustable steering wheels, and no touch-screen DVD/Nav info-tainment systems would be far greater than catering to those who grew up without any of these features and would accept not having them.

People want larger wheels, 50-way adjustable seats, heated seats aren't enough and they now must be cooled as well, electronics and integration to every aspect of life is the direction of the future and these are what drive sales and increase weight. A manual seat that only reclines could easily be 80-100lbs lighter than a 20-way adjustable heated and cooled seat, but then you'll struggle to cater to short and tall drivers and alienate the majority of your target market who wants these features.

However, increased safety standards do greatly affect a cars weight. They specify the height of the hoods, add tons of airbags which cars 15-20 years ago never had, and increase the weight of the car. Heck, a Miata gained 400lbs between its debut and the current "MX5", and these cars don't have a whole lot of features and gadgets.

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