350R VS Z/28

[cbrookre]

Also, the 350TP was tested, not the base 350. I wouldn't say that the SS would be even with the base 350, but that it would be closer than people might think.

Just finished watching the whole video, from 5:00 to 6:00 is just precious. The Host, Jason Cammisa, looked like a half dozen scantily clad models had just walked in the room every time the car went above 5k RPM. Similar response to what Road and Track had said in their Best Driver's Car about "The Sound" that just has to be heard to be believed. Cannot wait to see (or hear) one in person! Cool stuff!

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[Nataphen]

Why did they feel the need to break 600hp with the Z06? Especially if the last one only made 505... I would've been much happier with a 550-575hp NA Z06 than the heavier, overheating LT4. The Z06 was never about absolute power, the ZR1 was.

They wanted to replace both the Z06 and ZR1 with it. I guess they figured if it made less power than the LS9 in the ZR1, it wouldn't work from a marketing standpoint. Who knows? I would've been much happier with another 7.0 NA motor too. An "LT7" with DI, 12-13:1 compression, and VCT would have me seriously considering a GM product.

 

[Trackaholic]

They wanted to replace both the Z06 and ZR1 with it. I guess they figured if it made less power than the LS9 in the ZR1, it wouldn't work from a marketing standpoint. Who knows? I would've been much happier with another 7.0 NA motor too. An "LT7" with DI, 12-13:1 compression, and VCT would have me seriously considering a GM product.

Same here. Not a fan of the direction GM went with the C7Z. Heck, I would have been fine with the same old LS7 coupled with weight reduction rather than the powerhouse they ended up creating.

I also believe that GM won't be making another Z/28 with a naturally aspirated engine. I would expect them to combine the ZL1 and Z/28 similar to how they combined the Z06 and ZR1 with the vette.

-T

 

[cbrookre]

Isn't the z28 3 model years old now and prior generation? If the 350 hangs with the new model I'll be impressed then. As of now local dealers are unloading the z28s at low prices, so price difference is moot. If the GT350 didn't out do the z28 then that would be sad.

While I agree, and clearly the Z28 will benefit from the newer and stiffer chassis, both of these cars are approaching the limits of what the current technology can offer. Without a huge power advantage, the chassis is getting pretty close to ideal it would seem so either way (old Z28, GT350R or new Z28) it would likely be a driver's race to see any difference. Definitely these "muscle" cars are approaching some high $$ territory as far as their behavior on the track, and it shows in the reviews and the times.

 

[wproctor411]

Same dyno, same day, same temperature. Just facts.

A chassis dyno isn't the best metric. At 500HP levels You can have an easy 10-20hp swing on two of the exact same OEM cars in exactly the same conditions running back to back. For certification they use engine Dyno's to certify the OEM numbers in lab controlled environments starting with set parameters for oil and water temps, ambient air temps, and density altitude.

 

[wproctor411]

While I agree, and clearly the Z28 will benefit from the newer and stiffer chassis, both of these cars are approaching the limits of what the current technology can offer. Without a huge power advantage, the chassis is getting pretty close to ideal it would seem so either way (old Z28, GT350R or new Z28) it would likely be a driver's race to see any difference. Definitely these "muscle" cars are approaching some high $$ territory as far as their behavior on the track, and it shows in the reviews and the times.

What consumers want is OEMs to move these technologies into the base vehicles while keeping cost low. I think it will happen to some degree.

 

[Grimace427]

A 5.2L with some kind of forced induction would probably be good for 650 hp or more. Plus it would be lighter than the LT4.

A forced induction 5.0/5.2 would definitely be heavier than the LT4. DOHC V8 engines are massive compared to small block pushrod engines like the LS/LT series.

I would've been much happier with another 7.0 NA motor too. An "LT7" with DI, 12-13:1 compression, and VCT would have me seriously considering a GM product.

I would have loved that too but GM claimed to have tried that but couldn't get it to pass emissions hence the FI LT4.

 

[Nataphen]

A forced induction 5.0/5.2 would definitely be heavier than the LT4. DOHC V8 engines are massive compared to small block pushrod engines like the LS/LT series.

You may be surprised. The LT1 weighs more than the Coyote. Thank you, DI and VCT. The LS motors were lower tech than the LT, making them much lighter.

 

[Grimace427]

You may be surprised. The LT1 weighs more than the Coyote. Thank you, DI and VCT. The LS motors were lower tech than the LT, making them much lighter.

LT4 weighs 529lbs: http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-c...what-makes-the-new-supercharged-lt4-v-8-tick/

I'm looking for the supercharged CJ engine weight for comparison but coming up empty.

 

[Hack]

Isn't the z28 3 model years old now and prior generation? If the 350 hangs with the new model I'll be impressed then. As of now local dealers are unloading the z28s at low prices, so price difference is moot. If the GT350 didn't out do the z28 then that would be sad.

So you are trying to say that the car Chevy sold in 2015 is "old", but the car Ford sold in 2015 is "new", so it doesn't count that the Ford was better in every way. Makes total sense to me.

And then in the next breath you say that the GT350 has to beat the next version Chevy puts out for the results to count.

But, using your logic won't the GT350 then be the old platform so it doesn't count? Seems like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth on this.

 

[cosmo]

LT4 weighs 529lbs: http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-c...what-makes-the-new-supercharged-lt4-v-8-tick/

I'm looking for the supercharged CJ engine weight for comparison but coming up empty.

Coyote is 444 lbs roughly. The TVS 2300 is about 80 lbs if I recall correctly, not including the coolant and hosing. So they probably come out very close.

 

[200MPHCOBRA]

A chassis dyno isn't the best metric. At 500HP levels You can have an easy 10-20hp swing on two of the exact same OEM cars in exactly the same conditions running back to back. For certification they use engine Dyno's to certify the OEM numbers in lab controlled environments starting with set parameters for oil and water temps, ambient air temps, and density altitude.

You are missing the point. Compared on the same exact dyno at near the same time, one car posts industry expected numbers for its sae rating, the other is nearly half of whats expected. Using the same dyno at the same time removes all the BIG variables. If the GT would have pulled in the 490 range I would have called it even. That was a "hot" Z28, its too far off. I don't need to do a statistical analysis to get a standard deviation to see it. Now is a dynojet as accurate as a multi million dollar OEM set up, no, but more than close enough under the observed conditions to see a 50% deviation from normal.
Another tell, in bad conditions, one car runs a "normal conditions" time, the other runs an expected time for those conditions. It raises another flag.

Another thing from the 1/4 mile portion, at one point, the Z looks to be pulling on the GT, if anything, after the launch and first gear, it should be all GT as the engine should never drop below 6K for the rest of the run, did we have a bonked shift in the GT?
I am positive you will see R's running 11.7 at 122-3 as a normal, not a hero run in average air, its already been reportedly witnessed by individuals.

 

[Nataphen]

You are missing the point. Compared on the same exact dyno at near the same time, one car posts industry expected numbers for its sae rating, the other is nearly half of whats expected. Using the same dyno at the same time removes all the BIG variables. If the GT would have pulled in the 490 range I would have called it even. That was a "hot" Z28, its too far off. I don't need to do a statistical analysis to get a standard deviation to see it. Now is a dynojet as accurate as a multi million dollar OEM set up, no, but more than close enough under the observed conditions to see a 50% deviation from normal.
Another tell, in bad conditions, one car runs a "normal conditions" time, the other runs an expected time for those conditions. It raises another flag.

Another thing from the 1/4 mile portion, at one point, the Z looks to be pulling on the GT, if anything, after the launch and first gear, it should be all GT as the engine should never drop below 6K for the rest of the run, did we have a bonked shift in the GT?
I am positive you will see R's running 11.7 at 122-3 as a normal, not a hero run in average air, its already been reportedly witnessed by individuals.

The GT350 doesn't make full power on 91 octane, the Z/28 does. I'd expect the GT350 to be more susceptible to bad ambient conditions as well.

About the drag race, the filmed one was just for the video. They did the timed tests individually and just posted them during the middle of that filmed run. I don't know why the Z started to pull for a second, but the GT350R completely walked it on the back half.

 

[dcasandman]

So you are trying to say that the car Chevy sold in 2015 is "old", but the car Ford sold in 2015 is "new", so it doesn't count that the Ford was better in every way. Makes total sense to me.

And then in the next breath you say that the GT350 has to beat the next version Chevy puts out for the results to count.

But, using your logic won't the GT350 then be the old platform so it doesn't count? Seems like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth on this.

Interesting, What I'm saying is it's a complete previous generation car vs a brand new platform. When both are setting on the current gen platform I think it's more relevant. Of coarse you can continue to be rude for no reason. Just saying I wouldn't be that excited to beat a 3 year old previous generation car. If I owned ford and my engineers didn't they'd be fired if that was our goal. I may be talking out my ass though.

 

[200MPHCOBRA]

Your point is that in say, 70 degree 50% humidity with 93 in the tanks the Z would have made the same power and the GT would have made about 490?

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