2016 Camaro SS Development at BMR Suspension - PIC HEAVY

[ForTehNguyen]

counting 4 heat exchangers: engine radiator, downward facing oil cooler, then there are two side vent coolers. Diff and transmission?

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[Cashcow]

surprising i wouldve expected the rear IRS components to be aluminum considering the extensive use in the front. The stangs are for the LCA. Front multilink looks aluminum

I guess there is even more room for weight reduction in the Camaro then I initially thought.

 

[Sasuketr]

I guess there is even more room for weight reduction in the Camaro then I initially thought.

Chevy might be also holding back to see what the competition is offering in the upcoming years, and then Bam a lighter and more powerful camaro again!

 

[n8rfastback]

I would worry about those exposed exchangers facing down toward road debris, and right in the open wheel well where mud and sand and water will clog them up, at least on a daily driver.

 

[68fbjjz109]

Would people please stop saying Ford did not got all out, and keep things in context.

Ford build an whole new vehicle, that is expensive and relatively more all out.

GM flexed the Alpha platform into the Camaro, that is cheap in comparison; especially when Cadillac programs paid for it's light weighted approach.

90% of the people complaining about Ford not going all out would have shit bricks if the base GT was 37K.

Stay principled. Cheap, Fast, and Reliable. You get 2 choices.

If the 2017 Mustang had aluminum in the same places as the Camaro, I would trade my car in a heartbeat. But its probably not going to happen that quick.

 

[Khell86]

They might have skipped aluminum in the rear in order to help with weight distribution. Didn't it get a little worst this year?

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Would people please stop saying Ford did not got all out, and keep things in context.

Ford build an whole new vehicle, that is expensive and relatively more all out.

GM flexed the Alpha platform into the Camaro, that is cheap in comparison; especially when Cadillac programs paid for it's light weighted approach.

90% of the people complaining about Ford not going all out would have shit bricks if the base GT was 37K.

Stay principled. Cheap, Fast, and Reliable. You get 2 choices.

If the 2017 Mustang had aluminum in the same places as the Camaro, I would trade my car in a heartbeat. But its probably not going to happen that quick.

:cheers::ford:

Bench racing is strong around here.

 

[68fbjjz109]

3. Camaro's front looks to use much more aluminum than the Mustang. Looks like both front links as well as the sub frame are aluminum, while the Mustang has steel for all. Is that true, or does the Camaro still use steel up front? Any thoughts of making an aluminum front subframe for the Mustang?

This is true.

I am curious if the BMR Tubular Subframe would be suitable for street and road course work, and if so. What is the weight delta with the stamped steel OEM piece.

An extruded aluminum with cast provisions is costly to tool up for.

 

[Ninjak]

Interesting tech in the Camaro for sure. In the end GM did their homework, and delivered on what they said they would do. You can see and understand the price bump now. If this holds up for the other models, it will be interesting on how they are priced.

With vehicles getting out there, its time to see some track times. Well at least from the shops here in S. FL. Time to get to PBIR ! Really interested to see the performance these new Camaro's are capable of.

 

[Cashcow]

They might have skipped aluminum in the rear in order to help with weight distribution. Didn't it get a little worst this year?

Potentially but it still has the best handling feel and performance in the segment. It far outperforms the capabilities of the 5th gen. I think GM did an excellent job with the alpha platform on the Camaro.

 

[68fbjjz109]

Interesting tech in the Camaro for sure. In the end GM did their homework, and delivered on what they said they would do. You can see and understand the price bump now.

I said something similar on Camaro 6, when people where gawking at the price; there is core improvements in comparison to the 5GC. Improvements in areas where most people will not mod, and in materials and assembly strategies that command a bit of a premium.

Cradles, Control arms ect. that's more exciting to me that the motor. Most people will do tunes, bolt ons, lighter wheels, better tires, brakes and such. Not many are willing to drop cradles, swap out control arms ect.

Did GM do there homework? Yea sure sir... They revised what existed, which was a good foundation and kudos for building that in the first place. But when I look at the new Mercedes C400 that weighs about the same and has 4 doors, 4 axles, 2 turbos, and content levels that isn't in most vehicles on the road. That's impressive to me.

 

[Grimace427]

Yea sure sir....

Did you say "Yeah sure" or "Yes Sir"?

 

[1320']

So having seen more and more of the Camaro...I think the price *is* justified, however it still places it above what most people can comfortably afford, or at least for me.

Nearly 40 large for a 1SS auto with NPP (what I would get) is way too rich for my blood.

 

[BMR Tech]

I want to clarify what I meant by "Ford has their work cut out for them"

The fact is, even though the GM powerplant is considered by many these days as "old school pushrod technology" - the power these newer LT engines put out (even stock) is simply amazing when paired with a chassis and suspension that can apply it.

We would all be silly to think that Ford and GM rate their engines at their peak potential at this point. It's the same ole, add a better intake and add a degree of timing and advertise the next MY car at 15 more HP kinda deal. (or put a larger TB on it, improve the exhaust etc - but the engine longblock stays the same)

With the LT engine, this thing has more potential than the current Coyote platform in my personal opinion. In stock form, the 6.2L Direct Injected Naturally Aspirated motor is pumping out approx 415-420rwhp and 420+rwtq.

When it comes to transmissions, I would find it hard for anyone to not prefer a Tremec 6060 over a Getrag MT82. Want an auto? 8-Speed anyone?

Thus far, I am pretty firm that the engine and transmission favors the new Camaro.

What did GM do with the 6GC? They removed 300+lbs, and they also increased the chassis stiffness by 25+%. Based on ATS, well, okay. The ATS is indeed a sweet car though! We have one. Ford used the Integral Link IRS design that is also offered in family sedans in/outside of the US - BTW.

Coolers for every fluid.

Standard 4pot Brembos out back

Less unsprung weight than the similar overall weighted S550 (underrated overlooked by many people)

Electronic cutouts / dual mode exhaust option. Adds a little more up top, and sounds gnarly. We acquired this option, and it is very cool.

Now let's touch on the actual suspension comparisons. I am a huge fan of the S550 and what Ford did with the suspension. However, I am also a big fan of GM and their IRS technology that they bring to the table. Keep in mind, GM has been building IRS based rear suspension RWD vehicles at a much higher rate and longer than Ford, in terms of latemodel performance vehicles.

-Cadillac CTS/V
-Pontiac GTO
-Pontiac G8
-Chevrolet SS
-5G Camaros

..to name a few. All of the above vehicles have been proven to perform very, VERY well.

Let's not forget about how well the 2010-2015 Camaro platform performs in the Pirelli World Challenge GTS Class. This year, Michael Cooper won the championship in his 5G Camaro (although, Ford did win the manufacture title)

2014, the Champion also drove a 5th Gen Camaro (with Kia winning the manufacture title...)

Initial claims are that the 2016 Camaro is very fast in acceleration. Indeed, it is. The new Camaro is exhilarating. Accel, Braking, Cornering - it just works well. Let's keep in mind that 420ftlbs of TQ that is applied to the tires, and this new chassis can apply to the pavement, too.

Now, I am not going to sit here and give every Pro to the Camaro. I own an S550 and prefer them as I type this. Ford did an EXCELLENT job. As for the S550 being an all new car, let's look at a few things.

-IRS used in the S550 is also similar to the Ford Fusion / Mondeo
-Coyote Engine was slightly modified for the S550
-MT82 was carried over, as was the 6R80
-The front subframe and "rails" are identical to the S197 Mustang
-The mid chassis resembles the S197 in many ways

Of course, small things like IMRCs were added to help it put more TQ down. The ECU was revamped (and AWESOME btw).

If you put it on paper, GM's new 6GC is a much better performer and a much improved version of the platform it replaced, compared to the S550 Mustang. I am talking overall, not specific applications like handling / road course use, where the S550's basic design is absolutely superior to the S197.

The looks - well this is VERY important to many, including myself. In my personal opinion, the S550 is a MUCH better "new look" than the new Camaro. I think the S550 is just amazing in the looks department, I prefer it over the S197 by a large amount - and is why I ordered mine immediately once order bank opened up. The 6GC looks great too. I like it. That said, I really don't see a "huge" change. I mean, our Red 2010 Camaro is sitting right next to our Red 2016 as I type. Subtle changes and enhancements, but not as massive of a change as the S550, in my opinion.

From the body curves, overall shape, to the wheel offerings, to the interior.....S550 all the way in my eyes.

Performance wise, I think Ford may include some aluminum soon - so stay tuned!

 

[Socalmustang]

Its funny how people discuss Ford being "smacked in the mouth" or being embarassed by the new Camaro...

The new mustang trumped the old generation Camaro, look at the sales, obviously the mustang was a huge success.

The new camaro responded to the new mustangs success, the performance numbers and some of the features look great. Is it considered a success yet? No! It needs to show in the units they sell.

Now when the Mustang responds, we will have the same conversation about the mustang smacking the camaro in the mouth, this is going to keep going back and forth performance wise.

These arguments get old!

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