First track day in the R

CSL · Jul 25, 2017

teamsketch said:
Lol, this is turning into a great thread.

Maybe it would be better if I explain what I am 'feeling' after a long session. At Pacific Raceways, there are 4 main braking zones. The first one is flat with a terminal speed around 150mph to around ~60mph, second one is 100mph+ to around 30mph (downhill) and the third is 110mph to 70mph. After a long session, I was getting a lot of pedal travel in the third braking zone, enough where it was inconsistent and I needed to give myself extra room. The pads also seemed to lose bite, but that also might be because I am used to the consistency of full race pads.

Never did I feel like I really couldn't stop, but there was some inconsistency. I am very aggressive in braking zones, often catching people in much better prepped vehicles. However, I can only do that with a very consistent brake feel. It sounds like maybe I just need to upgrade the fluid and possibly try a race pad. Otherwise I think the system is fine.

With respect to the arguments about how to brake, I have been taught to aggressively role into the brakes as fast as you can while also not upsetting the balance of the car. This was especially important on the Boss because if you got into the brakes too hard too quickly, the vehicle felt like it was going to do a cartwheel. However, with just a little patience (as opposed to stabbing) you could get a better set, which ultimately provided shorter braking distances.

Often times beginners will use their brakes too much because they are over slowing the car. The more experienced the driver, the less time you spend on the brakes even as you are going faster. This first time behavior is often a cause of overheated brakes at the track. I think this is a far greater issue than the nuance of initial brake application in braking zones.

Same track and same experience for me on stock pads. Sounds like we drive aggressively similar. You experienced friction fade as I described above. For your driving style you need a pad with more bite and you will get that consistency you're looking for. Stock fluid is DOT4, so you're good on that fluid for a few track days. I swapped my initial fluid after three track days and it was surprisingly clean. I am currently running Amsoil DOT 4.

DirtRoadTrip · Jul 25, 2017

[MENTION=19800]CSL[/MENTION] , how hard are those ST43s on your rotors?

cjgt350 · Jul 25, 2017

Stuntman said:
Braking in the shortest distance possible allows the brakes to cool longer over a course of a lap. In addition, not over-slowing a corner and getting off the brakes while carrying more entry speed also means you're on the brakes for a shorter period of time.

This^^^race pads were designed for this reason to handle heat spikes and bursts of deceleration among others. Not everyone is comfortable with the higher speeds entering deep into the braking zone but lower lap times and running 10/10th's is well worth it if you have the stomach for it. I have tracked with other GT350's that use much less brake but their braking zone is longer while having lower entry speed resulting in slower track times. I don't say this boasting but not everyone is aggressive. Spend your dollars where you net the best results. Stay with stock pads if you don't like flying into corners or run sticky tires as the OEM pads are great for many. My .02

CSL · Jul 25, 2017

DirtRoadTrip said:
[MENTION=19800]CSL[/MENTION] , how hard are those ST43s on your rotors?

Not bad at all for a track pad. I run 6-8 track days per season and have run the ST43s about four days so far. I am still on my first set of rotors, and after my last track day just started developing some small heat checking cracks that originate from the drilled holes in the middle of the disc. I expect to get two full seasons out of the rotors and I'll likely get about the same from the pads.

For comparison, I went through two sets of stock pads last year.

50 Deep · Jul 26, 2017

Zitrosounds said:
I was told stock pads with SRF. Attended in July 2017.

I was there a couple weeks ago, and attended last year around this time. Same information.

Stock pads and better fluid.

Hack · Jul 26, 2017

Stuntman said:
Braking in the shortest distance possible allows the brakes to cool longer over a course of a lap. In addition, not over-slowing a corner and getting off the brakes while carrying more entry speed also means you're on the brakes for a shorter period of time.

The brakes are cooling whenever they are hotter than ambient temperatures. Short, heavy braking means that the peak temperatures of the brakes will be higher.

Stuntman · Jul 26, 2017

Hack said:
The brakes are cooling whenever they are hotter than ambient temperatures. Short, heavy braking means that the peak temperatures of the brakes will be higher.

To make things simple, brakes are "cooling" is when the rotor temperature is decreasing, while brakes get hotter when the pads are pushed into the rotor, which creates friction and heats up the rotor.

It all depends on the energy in vs energy out. If you drag the brakes around the entire track, they will never get a chance to cool. Heck, I've seen a rental car's brakes catch fire after dragging the brakes for miles. Even though the pressure was light, dragging the brakes added more heat to the brake system at a greater rate than the internal vanes of the rotor could cool it. This cause the temps to keep climbing until the pads caught fire (well after the fade point).

But ABS is really hard on brakes and the harder you're pushing the pedal in ABS,the more you're wearing out and heating up the pads. It's best to just barely be feeling ABS and not adding more pressure once you get to that point. Or so they teach at the FP Racing School.

Hack · Jul 26, 2017

Stuntman said:
To make things simple, brakes are "cooling" is when the rotor temperature is decreasing, while brakes get hotter when the pads are pushed into the rotor, which creates friction and heats up the rotor.

It all depends on the energy in vs energy out. If you drag the brakes around the entire track, they will never get a chance to cool. Heck, I've seen a rental car's brakes catch fire after dragging the brakes for miles. Even though the pressure was light, dragging the brakes added more heat to the brake system at a greater rate than the internal vanes of the rotor could cool it. This cause the temps to keep climbing until the pads caught fire (well after the fade point).

But ABS is really hard on brakes and the harder you're pushing the pedal in ABS,the more you're wearing out and heating up the pads. It's best to just barely be feeling ABS and not adding more pressure once you get to that point. Or so they teach at the FP Racing School.

I'm sure you've seen a rental car's brakes catch fire.

The case where someone is on the brake and gas together isn't applicable to this conversation. I get that you want to be right so you're changing the subject. If someone applies the brakes and doesn't let off, the car will stop and the brakes will return to ambient temperatures.

I've never heard that ABS is hard on brakes. It somewhat rings true to me, but I have never seen any evidence either for or against that statement. Can you post a link to a study with actual evidence?

Zombo · Jul 26, 2017

When driving, especially on the track, it's best to stay out of the ABS as much as possible. Threshold braking (just up to the point where ABS intervenes) will yield the shortest braking distance; getting into the ABS only increases braking distance.

Hack · Jul 26, 2017

Zombo said:
When driving, especially on the track, it's best to stay out of the ABS as much as possible. Threshold braking (just up to the point where ABS intervenes) will yield the shortest braking distance; getting into the ABS only increases braking distance.

Agreed on these points. :cheers:

teamsketch · Jul 26, 2017

Zombo said:
When driving, especially on the track, it's best to stay out of the ABS as much as possible. Threshold braking (just up to the point where ABS intervenes) will yield the shortest braking distance; getting into the ABS only increases braking distance.

this^^^

Also, driving with ESP on can *sometimes* cause increased brake wear, especially if you are driving at the limit of the vehicle. The constant interaction around the racetrack (even when you don't know about it) can add unnecessary heat to the braking system.

Zombo · Jul 26, 2017

Good point, makes a lot of sense - the cars I've track driven only had ABS, so I never even considered this.

shelbyman · Jul 26, 2017

J_Maher_AMG; f. Those Raybestos pads that others are talking about sound pretty tempting though if they last much longer said:
I've had some experience with the Raybestos ST43 pads on my 66 Mustang race car with Wilwood 4 piston calipers and Willwood rotors and they wore out my freekin rotors:doh:...pads were fine but needed to replace the rotors and that wasn't cheap. I was kinda wanting to wear out the pads as they cheaper...:lol: I switched out to Carbotech pads not because I didn't like the ST43's but because I wanted to wear out the pads and I heard good things about Carbotech. To be very honest both the Carbotech and ST43's feel very good. I'm just not good enough to tell any difference.

shelbyman · Jul 26, 2017

J_ Considering though over the course of all the laps that Pobst himself has done said:
I just checked with Utah on what they use for pads. The tech said they use stock Ford parts on the pads front and rear. They have used others but not anymore. They get great pricing from Ford and buy a boat load of them...so its a cost issue and not a performance issue. He said they replace them about every 4 events for the fronts and the rears can go up to 8 so twice as long from the rears. They replace rotors about every 8 events using all stock Ford parts. Now the one part they deviate from stock is on the brake fluid...they use Castrol SRF. Just passing this info along.

First track day in the R

CSL

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DirtRoadTrip

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cjgt350

Adrenaline Junkie

CSL

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50 Deep

Signature Wheel Ford Rep

Hack

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Stuntman

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Hack

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Zombo

befejezett

Hack

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teamsketch

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Zombo

befejezett

shelbyman

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shelbyman

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