Should I ditch my P1X for Whipple/VMP?..

[Unas2k5]

I have a 15 p1x w/18 manifold No issues …

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[KKell83]

I have a 15 p1x w/18 manifold No issues …

who’s your tuner?

 

[KKell83]

Who’s your tuner? Maybe Wengerd is your next line up.

I don’t have bucking issue as well, but my build seems fairly simple.

I think it’s a waste of everything if something can get fixed instead of buying another car and build again imo.

I don’t want to roast anyone, but I am hearing more and more about Wengerd.

 

[Unas2k5]

who’s your tuner?

Lund

 

[SSG 5.0]

Lund is my tuner too and happy with the outcome.

KK, it’s not roasting because you’re spending your hard earned money and at the same time, you’re trusting them to do the work for you. You’re paying them lol. It’s your call of course and I respect that.

Who’s your tuner again lol

 

[Unas2k5]

Yeah just tell us. That’s not roasting at all.

 

[SH!FT]

Oh, interesting! What made you change? So you had a P1X?.. what made you chose Wengerd Performance vs Lund again? Go ahead and IM me if it’s sensitive info.

So my car bucks with and without CC set,
and even with a slight load; it almost feels like the throttle is applied then taken off throttle, on throttle off throttle. Anywhere within the rpm’s and worse when there’s hills. It’s just not enjoyable cruising. Mind you, this wasn’t always the case - I’m working with my IMRCs since a certain tuner suggestions it.

Has the car bucked since the P1X and pro-tune were added... or are you saying that the car ran good originally after the build, but now you're having this bucking issue?

 

[KKell83]

[/QUOTE]

On our mustangs it is not IMRC, it is CMCV Charge Motion Control Valve. It does not lengthen the intake port. It adds a restriction that speeds up airflow into the head. This allows the lean cruising mixtures to fully burn.

I know technical but I like to have factual information floating around.

Oh shoot, I've been saying it wrong for years! Lol.

Thank you.

Yeah just tell us. That’s not roasting at all.

Sounds good. So I decided to try a company who tuned my 2011 Roush Mustang to the TEE and gambled since they usually focus on PD blowers. Yep, VMP. Mike over there is the guy helping me out. I wanted my CMVC's working to get some mileage back. Was at 24-26 with Procharger, dumped down to 19-21 PBD.

I'd admit though, customer service has been 100% and as I told him, idle is 9/10, WOT is 9/10 and drivability is 6/10.

Has the car bucked since the P1X and pro-tune were added... or are you saying that the car ran good originally after the build, but now you're having this bucking issue?

Ok... So, it was originally tuned by PBD and honestly didn't have the best outcome (was underwhelming) when the MAF was in the intercooler but ran it like that for a year until I moved to another state when the tune really fell on its face; power, fuel economy, and typical cruising sucked. Rob tried to help even after overlooking the time I had the tune for and said he wouldn't tune it but would 'adjust' the MAF signal if I moved its location from the IC to a straight pipe; felt by doing so would fix 99% of my issues. So, I did. ONE log session later and he ended up leaving PBD - I wanted 3 weeks to finally hear from friends that he left. :/

Can't blame anyone for leaving but here I am with an unfinished tune... but to answer your question, no. No bucking what so ever! Car felt like a whole new animal - didn't do much aside from driving and going WOT to a low RPM. But it was quite nice compared to our original tune.

 

[KKell83]

So, a bit has changed since I wrote this post. Mike and I both agreed to lock the CMCV's and relog. I already pulled manifold and installed my lockouts, loaded his latest tune and it was still rocky. But since I am back with the CMCV's locked I uploaded my previous PBD tune and all my complaints were GONE... G.O.N.E. So, my car is in good mechanical condition, Mike just has to get over that hump.

 

[SH!FT]

That's good to hear. Could your CMCV system be malfunctioning?

I wouldn't recommend bailing on your procharger for a PD kit if you are concerned about gas mileage. I've yet to see an avg of 20 mpg cruising around conservatively with the Roush installed. My factory CMCV's are obviously deleted.

 

[KKell83]

That's good to hear. Could your CMCV system be malfunctioning?

I wouldn't recommend bailing on your procharger for a PD kit if you are concerned about gas mileage. I've yet to see an avg of 20 mpg cruising around conservatively with the Roush installed. My factory CMCV's are obviously deleted.

No no no. I wouldn’t remove the Procharger because of gas mileage, it was because of all of issues/road blocks I’ve encountered.

 

[SheepDog]

No no no. I wouldn’t remove the Procharger because of gas mileage, it was because of all of issues/road blocks I’ve encountered.

Here's another thing to consider with the Procharger vs. PD. It has been my experience that the Centri cars ON THE SREET, are faster and safer than the PD cars. Here's why...

The linear nature of the power delivery from the Centri is much more predictable and manageable. Everyone likes the feeling of that low down grunt that a PD blower provides, but the issue is that it makes so much torque down low, that you cannot put the power down. No matter what kind of tire you have. Sure, going sideways is fun, until it isn't.

Another issue that I don't think people focus on enough, is that all that torque that a PD makes even at very low RPM, is very hard on the bottom end of your motor, as well as the transmission, differential, axles, driveshaft, etc. Most people are adding forced induction to these cars without building the bottom end and drivetrain to properly to manage all of the extra force.

These Coyotes and their high reving nature are a perfect match for a Centri. Just my .02.

 

[Angrey]

Here's another thing to consider with the Procharger vs. PD. It has been my experience that the Centri cars ON THE SREET, are faster and safer than the PD cars. Here's why...

The linear nature of the power delivery from the Centri is much more predictable and manageable. Everyone likes the feeling of that low down grunt that a PD blower provides, but the issue is that it makes so much torque down low, that you cannot put the power down. No matter what kind of tire you have. Sure, going sideways is fun, until it isn't.

Another issue that I don't think people focus on enough, is that all that torque that a PD makes even at very low RPM, is very hard on the bottom end of your motor, as well as the transmission, differential, axles, driveshaft, etc. Most people are adding forced induction to these cars without building the bottom end and drivetrain to properly to manage all of the extra force.

These Coyotes and their high reving nature are a perfect match for a Centri. Just my .02.

I'll second this but with a caveat. PD blowers for the street are fine, UP TO A CERTAIN POINT. When you start to greatly exceed the traction capabilities, the instantaneous torque becomes not just problematic, it becomes counterproductive and in some cases, dangerous.

If you're going BIG BIG power (4 digits or higher) the drawbacks of the PD setup, particularly on a manual become severe. Without some way to modulate the power, it then becomes a very esoteric exercise within the tune itself to manage throttle angle (vs pedal position commanded). There are some pretty smart guys on here who could probably layout how the PCM is able to modulate PD torque production through air load and throttle angle (regardless of what you're commanding with your foot) but my experience is that's almost pie/sky as most tuners just aren't going to take that level of time/knowledge into the tune.

A centri not only delivers the torque differently, but you can manage the torque via blowoff and other mechanical means.

Throw in the god awful bypass actuation on PDs and above a certain level, on the street it becomes a bit of a beast. You don't ALWAYS want to go from asleep to rage instantly. Centri at bigger power will be a little more manageable.

If you're below say 850 wheel, then PD's are just fine and actually preferable from some standpoints.

Most of the thread is about the drawbacks of a blow through setup with MAF signal/CMCV or IMRC complexities and driveability tuning, and under certain power levels I think PD blowers suffer less from that sorta stuff. But over a certain power level, you deal with bypass slamming shut and big changes to the air load with minor adjustments in throttle angle (it gets REAL touchy).

 

[SolarFlare]

What is this a 3V forum. 2015+ mustangs have IMRC, thats what ford calls it and thats what it is. lol

 

[SheepDog]

What is this a 3V forum. 2015+ mustangs have IMRC, thats what ford calls it and thats what it is. lol

I always thought so too, but @K4fxd slapped my hand when I called it an IMRC. Either way, It's basically worthless, especially with boost.

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