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Discussion in 'Forced Induction - 5.0L V8 Engine' started by GreenS550, Jun 28, 2018.

?

What caused the engine failure?

  1. LMS tune

    86.0%
  2. Poor Gas

    5.4%
  3. Improper ring gap from original manufacture

    8.6%
  1. GreenS550

    GreenS550 Well-Known Member

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    I hope to get advice from members here. About 4 months ago Livernois Motorsports installed their LMS675 package on my 18K mile 2015 Mustang GT automatic. They also installed OPG/Sprocket at the same time.

    The car had some drivablity issues from the beginning. I contacted them within a few weeks from the install. Made a lot of torque/power, but backfired a few times. Would kinda jerk. I called them several times stating my issues. Took it there about a month or so ago and they kept the car for 2 weeks to drive it. Put 120 miles on the car and said it had a "random rev limiter" issue.

    I got the car back and it got progressively worse. I took it there 2 weeks ago. The salesman said the engine is bad. There is blowby in the crankcase.

    I don't live near there so yesterday after keeping the car a week and a half, we had a conference call with the business manager/calibrater/salesmen. They were respectful and seemingly straightforward. Bottom line is that I need a new short block or rebuild. Probably a bad piston/ring. They said the heads are likely good.

    They are saying I likely had a bad tank of gas. Is this possible?

    Tomorrow they are giving me a quote on an installed forged shortblock.

    I never raced the engine. Car ran perfectly before. They are saying they installed 75 of these exact setups in the last several years with zero issues.

    Any information you can supply will help in my decision to have them fix it or get the car back. They make a pretty strong case for bad gas.
     
  2. Performance nut

    Performance nut Well-Known Member

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    First, that sucks that this happened.

    Second, I'd go get a second opinion from a local mechanic you can trust. Not to say that Livernois is lying to you, may be something you can accept better if someone actually looks at the car and makes a diagnosis.

    Lastly, I'm not a fan of the "bad gas" argument. Means they went full out aggressive tune that your fuel couldn't support. If you are one tank of gas away from engine issues, that is way too aggressive of a tune IMO.
     
  3. Boduke0220

    Boduke0220 Well-Known Member

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    I have a friend that lives in Michigan and he was telling me they did shady stuff like this a lot. obviously this is 2nd hand information but I would call finish line performance, they're really good
     
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  4. VRP

    VRP Boost Loading...

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    Tell them you want to physically in person see the compression test and leak down test proving your compression issue... pretty simple
     
  5. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Well-Known Member

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    Bad gas? Lol.

    These cars have the ability to retard timing in the event you get a tank of gas that cannot support the spark built into the tune.

    Unless they turned off the knock sensors.

    What kind of fuel do you run OP?
     
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  6. Jay-rod427

    Jay-rod427 Well-Known Member

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    This. It may run like shit, but shouldn't have done damage.
     
  7. JennyStang

    JennyStang Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about your car man. I have the same set up and no issues like
    You have had. what gas do you use. I only put 93 bp or 93 shell. One time I put Costco 93 and glad I have a an sct tuner. I watch knock a lot with it. On the bp or shell I would see timing advance up to -3.49 and some times get real knock of +1.0 when I would stomp on the gas for a sec with Costco 93. It would get +2-3.0 knock the same way and timing would not advance pass +1.0. not saying gas was the issue. But man that sucks or maybe a gas station messed up and put 87 in the 93. I know mejier did diesel in 87 not to long ago and paid a lot in damages to people cars
     
  8. OP
    OP
    GreenS550

    GreenS550 Well-Known Member

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    I always ran 93 octane and only filled the tank up when it was very low so any 87 in the hose would be minimal. They explained to me that when they set the tune they did it in the sort of moderate range where the engine could handle a certain degree of lower octane gasoline beyond, say, 90 octane there could be a problem. I had an 11 coyote with 600 wheel horsepower and it never did this never had a problem. I'm trying to be open-minded on it but all the problems started when they put the blower on. Is gas really a possibility on this issue? It was my believe as stated that the knock sensor would retard the timing enough to keep the engine healthy. Can the tune alone do this? They also told me that if there was any error of the installation of the oil pump gear / sprocket that it would immediately cause the pistons to hit the valves and there would be a sensor that would indicate immediately that the cams were not timed right. It's this true? I asked Livernois when I agreed to the work what would happen if I head a problem and the salesman told be"we'll take care of you". They did a tune for my SHO and there in a tune on the Mustang before this was really good. It's hard to know exactly what I should do from here. I guess I'll have to see what they tell me tomorrow. More advice is very well appreciated!
     
  9. OP
    OP
    GreenS550

    GreenS550 Well-Known Member

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    I used whatever 93 that was available. Andy at LMS told me they filled up a customers car with Sunoco 93 and it audibly spark knocked so they drained the tank and refilled it will some 93 locally. The issue went away.

    I am having a hard time with this as the full throttle shifts, etc. I did were never with drag radial or on super hot days. Didn't even use line lock to heat the tires. Do you have this same Magnuson setup?
     
  10. JennyStang

    JennyStang Well-Known Member

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    Yeah same set up from livernois. But I have stock opg. I like to play with fire. I think opg are a hussle. Don’t hit rev limiter, etc and they will be fine. But that me.

    My car does wot just fine. No issues are all there. The only thing that I don’t like with the tune. Is at 3-4rpm shifts in boost, when it up shifts there is like a little power drop or delay or something that has been there since install. They claimed it was the tq converter locking unlocking. In the tune to help with the power transfer? Idk. But bedsides that little hiccup I stay out of boost anyways unless I’m in wot or I try to lol. I hope they take care of you. Sounds like they messed up in the install. They have put out many of these kits and not one blown up engine till you sad face
     
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  11. F1scamp

    F1scamp Well-Known Member

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    You could just be one of the lucky ones that got a super tight ring gap from the factory, and the added heat of the boost and right conditions made them butt. I smoked a rod bearing on mine, whens the last time you heard of that with one of these? Shit happens, fix it and enjoy.
     
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  12. Crackerjack17

    Crackerjack17 Well-Known Member

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    Just remember, Yeah the car has knock sensors and retards timing for bad gas... But that's after the knock has happened. So damage can occur. Look through my threads, I broke the ring lands on two pistons after approx. 9000 miles supercharged. On the flip side, there are a lot of guys running way more power and not having issues. I would say the likely reason is a combo of tight rings gaps, heat, and detonation.
     
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  13. Ggradtech

    Ggradtech Well-Known Member

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    I have that same blower. I had issues with Livernois and their tune on my car. I ended up tired of chasing them and went over to a Lund tune. When I had the Livernois tune, I never got the drivability nailed down. It would not hold a gear properly. The other issue I had with the Livernois tune was that I would get audible pinging when in a low RPM and part throttle. I think its possible that they tune for maximum power and don't leave any margin of error (like for a batch of crappy gas). Just my opinion, not sure that this is a true fact. I can tell you that their tune sucked bad on my automatic trans car. Enough to make me swallow $450 for a custom tune from Lund. Plus, of course, an additional $300 for the SCT tuner.
     
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  14. Jayme

    Jayme DoggystyleRacing®

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    they are so great at marketing on these forums, wonder why they aren't responding here?
     
  15. wildcatgoal

    wildcatgoal @sirboom_photography

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    From what I've been learning about tuning, which is 5% of what you can know, I'm sure, the tune could have either had the knock sensors turned off (that'd be negligence, IMHO) and/or the tune was not safe. But what I've also learned about tuning is that so much gets blamed on a tune, when it's really a pre-existing mechanical issue or an issue caused by physical part. For example, the flex joint on the passenger side of the stock headers on these cars has been identified as a cause for false knock, yet people blame the tuner. Some unlucky people (rare) who install aftermarket headers find they aren't producing the power they expect and see knock in data logs only to find out later that after forcing the collector pipes apart a little eliminates what was, once again, false knock. But, obviously, if their tuner turned off the knock sensors or created an unsafe tune on top of that, well...


    You run the risk of something breaking when you modify the car. Bad gas? So incredibly rare that I don't buy that (and the car should have retarded timing significantly and you would have noticed it with either misfires or loss of power if the gas was really "bad"). I honestly think your engine just had it coming... I mean unless they dropped something in a piston bore and it finally caused havoc, but that's also not likely.


    I am not and likely nobody else here is an expert on diagnosing the root cause. The advice to bring it to a trusted performance mechanic for a second opinion is the best advice so far.
     
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