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Who's installed the new ProCharger w/ nGauge?

Bartly

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Wondering if you have factory catalytic converters and if you've logged your cats temperature. Mine have shown 1944 deg. F, which is glowing yellow hot. Only interested in those with the ProCharger tune like me.

edit. removed my frustration. I don't mean that, just one of those weeks.
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oesman

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I'll log mine for you when I'm back from NY. Are you sure you were hitting 1944F before you were running lean? I only saw them hit 1600F in your properly fueled logs like log #13 and log #15. Were they hitting 1900+ in other logs before the lean condition? Lean exhaust gas is very hot. This is why you'll see a cyclic AFR as you drive around as the cats heat and cool to keep them within a set temperature range. Runs a little richer to cool down and then a little leaner for fuel efficiency. Of course running very rich is bad for cats too.

Think of it something like the attached pic. You can see your hottest EGT is around stoich. You were basically running stoich at WOT in your last log.
EGTvslambda.jpg
 
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Crackerjack17

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I'm driving mine right now. Just finished up install a few days ago. Running great besides it will not relearn the crank shaft position variation. Anyhow, I haven't looked at my logs yet, but I am monitoring the cat temp on the ngauge and I'm seeing 1200-1400 cruising and 1800 ish when I get on it. I havent installed my longtubes yet. I am going to install them over the winter and then get custom tune. I'll look over my logs soon and give you exact numbers.
 

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Wondering if you have factory catalytic converters and if you've logged your cats temperature. Mine have shown 1944 deg. F, which is glowing yellow hot. Only interested in those with the ProCharger tune like me.

Been a couple weeks with not much enjoyment of the most expensive non functional investement of my life.
Maybe I am being to simplistic with this but factory cats are designed to be efficient within a certain parameter.

Unburnt fuel
Flow

If those things are increased outside of those tolerances then it will lead to failure. I don't know what those tolerances are but I am sure running F/I is not good for them and would prematurely fail. Especially if you are running outside the CARB certification (yes I know it is a CA thing but still the OEM system is designed around it).
 
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Bartly

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I'll log mine for you when I'm back from NY. Are you sure you were hitting 1944F before you were running lean? I only saw them hit 1600F in your properly fueled logs like log #13 and log #15. Were they hitting 1900+ in other logs before the lean condition? Lean exhaust gas is very hot. This is why you'll see a cyclic AFR as you drive around as the cats heat and cool to keep them within a set temperature range. Runs a little richer to cool down and then a little leaner for fuel efficiency. Of course running very rich is bad for cats too.

Think of it something like the attached pic. You can see your hottest EGT is around stoich. You were basically running stoich at WOT in your last log.
I have no clue. All I know is all of the logs I've done and posted were within 15-20 minutes of each other with no changes to the car as I was driving it the whole time.
 

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Don't stress out bro, this is why we have a forum to help each other out. Just took the stang out for dinner, not sure if it's a fair comparison because it's been the coldest day this year today at 34 degree. The cat temp is in the 1300 range in regular driving
 

oesman

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I have no clue. All I know is all of the logs I've done and posted were within 15-20 minutes of each other with no changes to the car as I was driving it the whole time.
Wow I didn't realize that. Wonder what the hell is causing two of your posted runs to have good solid rich AFR under WOT and one to have lean AFR under WOT since they're all so close together. That's crazy! Cat temp wise though I still think your peak (1900+) temp is from being lean in that one run, since all the runs I saw where you had solid fueling were 300F colder.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this kit bro. I'm positive you will get this figured out, it's a relatively complicated system, but I think as long as you don't give up you will be very happy eventually. I've been super frustrated before on other builds so I know how you feel.
 
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Bartly

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I'll log mine for you when I'm back from NY. Are you sure you were hitting 1944F before you were running lean? I only saw them hit 1600F in your properly fueled logs like log #13 and log #15. Were they hitting 1900+ in other logs before the lean condition? Lean exhaust gas is very hot. This is why you'll see a cyclic AFR as you drive around as the cats heat and cool to keep them within a set temperature range. Runs a little richer to cool down and then a little leaner for fuel efficiency. Of course running very rich is bad for cats too.

Think of it something like the attached pic. You can see your hottest EGT is around stoich. You were basically running stoich at WOT in your last log.
Sorry, was at work on that last reply. Now looking at it, yes, lambda around 1 at WOT, the logs happened in order, so yeah it seems my only high temp was that first run. The only log you haven't looked at is 14. see below if you would like. Also has lambda at 1ish at not a very good WOT. The last log, is me at my high idle before I added the thread sealer. I shouldn't complain, I have a new tune I'm supposed to try, but that will have to wait until this weekend. I have to go read about lambda and WOT. Now my other car is acting up, compounding my situation, go figure. Good thing life always works out, lol.
 

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Bartly

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Wow I didn't realize that. Wonder what the hell is causing two of your posted runs to have good solid rich AFR under WOT and one to have lean AFR under WOT since they're all so close together. That's crazy! Cat temp wise though I still think your peak (1900+) temp is from being lean in that one run, since all the runs I saw where you had solid fueling were 300F colder.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this kit bro. I'm positive you will get this figured out, it's a relatively complicated system, but I think as long as you don't give up you will be very happy eventually. I've been super frustrated before on other builds so I know how you feel.
ya, thanks for that. That's the way I entered it, half thinking there would be a month of tweaks. Just being dumb I had it in the head that, naw most likely everything will go just fine. My Jeep has been finished for years, I remember plenty of frustration, just nothing with the engine, or anything that would have been more than a $100 obstacle and maybe some welding, hurting an engine or just the cats is what into the 4 digits, pay to play, yep I know. I sure do hope your right and I'll end up very happy. Just scared of the prospects of emissions testings and my cats not melting before I'm forced into a tough decision.
 
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Bartly

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Don't stress out bro, this is why we have a forum to help each other out. Just took the stang out for dinner, not sure if it's a fair comparison because it's been the coldest day this year today at 34 degree. The cat temp is in the 1300 range in regular driving

Thanks Man. I promised myself I wouldn't' ever drive my Mustang in bad weather or roads and couldn't stop myself from taking it for some test drives. Ended up snowing on my way home.
 

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Bartly

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Maybe I am being to simplistic with this but factory cats are designed to be efficient within a certain parameter.

Unburnt fuel
Flow

If those things are increased outside of those tolerances then it will lead to failure. I don't know what those tolerances are but I am sure running F/I is not good for them and would prematurely fail. Especially if you are running outside the CARB certification (yes I know it is a CA thing but still the OEM system is designed around it).
Well I was letting my brain naysay me into believing that since lots of OEM cars have FI with their cats lasting through the 80k mile warranty thing, things would be just dandy. I get what you are saying, just was hoping someone tuning for use with cats would have that figured out. I now put two and two together that even though companies like ProCharger and Whipple leave the OEM code that offers cat protection in their code, that OEM code was based on 435 HP. Might not be quite enough with what we have going on. Praying it is, and that it will all work out. Don't worry, not a Jesus freak, lol.

I hate it when I read "the stock cats are some of the best high flow cats out there", and couple that with me knowing plenty of OEMs sell FI vehicles, just makes my brain go yeah, they got me covered.
 

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Sorry, was at work on that last reply. Now looking at it, yes, lambda around 1 at WOT, the logs happened in order, so yeah it seems my only high temp was that first run. The only log you haven't looked at is 14. see below if you would like. Also has lambda at 1ish at not a very good WOT. The last log, is me at my high idle before I added the thread sealer. I shouldn't complain, I have a new tune I'm supposed to try, but that will have to wait until this weekend. I have to go read about lambda and WOT. Now my other car is acting up, compounding my situation, go figure. Good thing life always works out, lol.
Lambda values are another way to represent fueling. They are the equivalence ratio, where stoich is 1.0 for the given fuel. To mathematically figure out AFR from lambda values, multiply the lambda value by the stoich AFR of the fuel. For our application you're shooting for somewhere under 0.8, really around 0.78ish, which is about 11.5AFR rounded up (0.78 * 14.7).

Effectively if you're >1 you're lean and <1 you're rich, however for our application we consider going above 0.78ish to be on the lean side due to the power adder, even though it's not technically "lean" by the textbook definition of lean. Another thing to note is that 14.7 AFR is sort of a magic number for our purposes, in the sense that the fuel you're using may not be exactly stoich at 14.7 since 14.7 is stoich for pure octane. If you use something like the oxygenated race fuel that I used in my testing it's stoich at something around 13.x, and the mixtures of fuel you buy at the pump vary in chemical content. This is actually why lambda values make more sense to talk about since fuel varies in it's stoichiometry.

You should be seeing power enrichment (PE) under wide open throttle (WOT) but for some reason on that one lean run you were not. The other two logs you added are hard to read since they're not at WOT. You went WOT for a second in the first one, but did not rich out, but it was very brief. Your second log seemed just you at idle.

ya, thanks for that. That's the way I entered it, half thinking there would be a month of tweaks. Just being dumb I had it in the head that, naw most likely everything will go just fine. My Jeep has been finished for years, I remember plenty of frustration, just nothing with the engine, or anything that would have been more than a $100 obstacle and maybe some welding, hurting an engine or just the cats is what into the 4 digits, pay to play, yep I know. I sure do hope your right and I'll end up very happy. Just scared of the prospects of emissions testings and my cats not melting before I'm forced into a tough decision.
Heh my buddy has been working on his jeep build for about 24 months now, it's like $30K+ into it, LS2 engine, etc... He's plenty frustrated with the timeframe. JustEmptyEveryPocket!

Well I was letting my brain naysay me into believing that since lots of OEM cars have FI with their cats lasting through the 80k mile warranty thing, things would be just dandy.
Most of those cars aren't pushing the kind of power ;-). But don't despair yet, because:

1. You may be running this hot due to being lean, let's see what PC says or maybe someone else experienced in tuning. Once we figure that out your problem may be solved.

2. Even if you end up burning out or fouling up the cats, unless you're in California I can't see it being a huge problem to get around. There are ethical solutions such as 49 state legal cats and less than ethical solutions if you want to go that way.
 
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jabrax

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seriously considering the mak cat deletes with the flange to easily swap in the original cats at inspection. Waiting to check out a local's to make sure I can deal with the volume.
 

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seriously considering the mak cat deletes with the flange to easily swap in the original cats at inspection. Waiting to check out a local's to make sure I can deal with the volume.
If you're gonna break the law run on the street without cats, unless your inspection place looks under your car, why not just tune them out? Then no swapping until you're ready to sell it, and even then only if it's some rando that buys it who may not understand what's up.
 

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Maybe I am being to simplistic with this but factory cats are designed to be efficient within a certain parameter.

Unburnt fuel
Flow

If those things are increased outside of those tolerances then it will lead to failure. I don't know what those tolerances are but I am sure running F/I is not good for them and would prematurely fail. Especially if you are running outside the CARB certification (yes I know it is a CA thing but still the OEM system is designed around it).
Some of the PD superchargers are making much more power than Procharger on the (Procharger) tune. And they are CARB compliant. I am assuming they would not be CARB compliant if they would easily overheat the stock cats.
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