Wheel hop - 6A vs Manual

[brucelinc]

Sorry if this has been asked before and I just couldn't find it. I am curious if guys who drag race with a 2015-2017 automatic have any wheel hop issues. I am not talking about supercharged or heavily modified cars; rather stock or those with just a tune.

I have a 2016 with a manual and 3.55 gears. I have BMRs cradle lockout kit and vertical links. I can avoid wheel hop in 1st with some clutch slippage and throttle control but on the 1-2 shift it is violent to the point of certain damage unless I back out of it.

I want to be able to enjoy a Mustang on the street and also take it to the drag strip occasionally. I am thinking of trading for one with the 6A. So is the 6A less likely to suffer from the wheel hop than a manual?

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[Tommy V]

Yes the auto will not wheel hop like the manual,its still possible but not likely.What tires u running when getting this wheel hop???,i would bet thats your problem.

 

[brucelinc]

Yes the auto will not wheel hop like the manual,its still possible but not likely.What tires u running when getting this wheel hop???,i would bet thats your problem.

Tommy, I am running 285/35-19 BFG Comp 2 on 10 inch rims. I know they are not ideal but they work nicely on the street and I can't just keep experimenting with different tires until I find a solution.

I ran at the track yesterday and it was a wheel hopping mess. Ran 13.0 @ 112.8 with a 2.20 60. I did a gentle launch but on the 1-2 shift, it just goes into a spastic wheel hopping fit.

 

[HISSMAN]

See BMR or Steeda to stop the hop. We all do it until we fix the issues with the way to soft rear cradle.

 

[Tommy V]

Tommy, I am running 285/35-19 BFG Comp 2 on 10 inch rims. I know they are not ideal but they work nicely on the street and I can't just keep experimenting with different tires until I find a solution.

I ran at the track yesterday and it was a wheel hopping mess. Ran 13.0 @ 112.8 with a 2.20 60. I did a gentle launch but on the 1-2 shift, it just goes into a spastic wheel hopping fit.

Yea i get what u are saying,but with manual cars tires make a huge difference when it come to wheel hop.On my manual.car completley stock rear suspension except for axles my nto5r drag radials did pretty good with stopping wheel hop,but when i put a bias ply slick on their i never got any wheel hop.If u like going to the strip u might want to get a set of slicks just for t he track,would make a big difference in your 60 ft.

 

[Braski]

Slicks are a must if you want to drag race a manual!

 

[KYLExKILLJOY]

My times were pretty close to your times, although I added headers+tune I feel like the cradle lockouts / upr vertical links / steeda diff bushings got rid of most of the violence. Even on my 555s it seems like it tries to bite down now instead of hop.


I ran a 12.505 with a 2.0 60ft on MT et street s/s this last week.

 

[tj@steeda]

Our 2018 Mustang GT - Silver Bullet is not heavily modified & is running our Steeda Stop the Hop Kit - it has done very well.

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]NjG3Cr7jeik[/MEDIA]"]

Best Regards,

TJ

 

[brucelinc]

Silvet Bullet has the 10 speed automatic, correct?

 

[tj@steeda]

Yes it does - just a point of comparison that with minor mods & this kit.

TJ

 

[wildcatgoal]

No wheel hop on a drag strip with my Steeda parts. Those parts can't make me launch this god awful clutch engagement-equipped car, but... no wheel hop, even if someone who can drag race drives me car (and gets half a second faster than me... ugggggg!).

 

[DavidHuff]

No wheel hop on a drag strip with my Steeda parts. Those parts can't make me launch this god awful clutch engagement-equipped car, but... no wheel hop, even if someone who can drag race drives me car (and gets half a second faster than me... ugggggg!).

What parts did you install from Steeda?

 

[wildcatgoal]

Click on My Build in my signature.

 

[DavidHuff]

Click on My Build in my signature.

Found your build.Thanks

 

[BMR Tech]

Sorry if this has been asked before and I just couldn't find it. I am curious if guys who drag race with a 2015-2017 automatic have any wheel hop issues. I am not talking about supercharged or heavily modified cars; rather stock or those with just a tune.

I have a 2016 with a manual and 3.55 gears. I have BMRs cradle lockout kit and vertical links. I can avoid wheel hop in 1st with some clutch slippage and throttle control but on the 1-2 shift it is violent to the point of certain damage unless I back out of it.

I want to be able to enjoy a Mustang on the street and also take it to the drag strip occasionally. I am thinking of trading for one with the 6A. So is the 6A less likely to suffer from the wheel hop than a manual?

Wheel-Hop is the result of a mixture of things, but most importantly the loss of traction. The process of the tires beginning to achieve traction, then traction loss is when you feel it. Ways to improve wheel-hop are increasing traction and/or increasing the rigidity of the mounting points/locations that control the wheel.

I own both varieties of S550 (A6 / MT82 ). Have raced, tested, broken and absolutely thrashed both.

In testing, all parts individually and multiple parts combined - up to all parts installed, I found that some modifications helped with various uses in terms of wheel-hop.

I spent a little over a year thoroughly testing IRS and suspension modifications on my 2016 GT PP (MT82 with 3.73 gears, street tires) and a few things I can share are:

Vertical Links:
I was able to eliminate wheel-hop in most scenarios without vertical links, however when unequally loading the suspension and applying power - the Vertical Links helped significantly. Example would be, pulling out of a parking lot turning at a sharp angle and going 3/4 to WOT. I do not do this often, but I did during testing in an effort to find where the Vertical Links would pay dividends specifically in the wheel hop department.

CB005 Cradle Bushing Lockout Kit:
I was able to eliminate wheel-hop with this modification on the car (with other mods) - however, I was NOT able to eliminate the wheel-hop without this. Once I had the entire IRS assembly upgraded, I removed this modification and the oscillation of the IRS Subframe was drastically noticed during WOT launches, etc. To be transparent, I then added the CB010 back on (which was not out yet) and was able to get the similar performance as the CB005 - hence the reason we chose to release the CB010 after the CB005.

Rear Lower Arm Bearing Upgrade: (BK081)
On both my 2015 A6 Auto GT (big HP) and my 2016 GTPP Stick shift car (430whp NA) this modification was the best overall for wheel hop and controlled WOT maneuvers. A few years ago, I had made about 100 passes at the drag strip with 800hp~ and all passes had very slight signs of wheel-hop in the logging software. I did everything possible, including various spring rates and double adjustable shocks etc to remove this and was not successful until I swapped the rubber our for our bearings.

Additionally, we tested in the same fashion on a BMR owned PP GT and I also tested on my 2016 GTPP. We saw the same exact results across the board. I have all of these datalogs, and will show the comparison below (staggered line is wheel-hop and no RLCA bearing upgrade, smooth is after the RLCA upgrade)

*Regardless of the brand and style IRS modifications, I am 100% confident I can make any manual trans S550 on street radial tires wheel hop without this upgrade.

Knuckle Toe Bearing Upgrade: (Ford Performance M-5A460-M)
This modification is the bees knees. This modification does not magically solve all of your wheel hop woes BUT it does help. The reason this modification is important and one that I always recommend (especially for the $60 price tag) is that the toe changes significantly on the S550 IRS system under load. The toe change IS NOT what is causing wheel hop, however it is far from helping lessen or eliminate it. The alignment of the IRS is very important and when you have wheel hop, the last thing you need is the toe changing. Erratic toe change causes camber change/flucuation and when all combined traction can and does become inconsistent. Less traction, more erratic wheel movement = more wheel hop.

Aftermarket Adjustable Toe Links:
These do not help in eliminating wheel-hop UNLESS you run out of adjustment with a stock link (for necessary or proper alignment), OR if you are making enough power to deflect the stock link bodies enough to worsen wheel-hop.

Aftermarket Adjustable Camber Links:
These do not help in eliminating wheel-hop UNLESS you run out of adjustment with a stock link (for necessary or proper alignment), OR if you are making enough power to deflect the stock link bushings enough to worsen wheel-hop. The stock camber links are pretty much good for most applications - unless a target alignment is needed that cannot be achieved with them.

Differential Mount Bushing or Insert / Lockout Kits:
This is one of those modifications that I like personally, but I am not really thrilled with across the board due to various issues on the consumer side. I do not look at these as a Wheel-Hop killer, I look at these as a part saver and a way to plant power more effectively. These modifications can be advantageous for many, and provide many more cons than pros for others.

Something that is common with making the diff mounting more rigid than stock, but not solid, is the increase in damaging loads to the differential mounting hardware AND/OR the increased chances of bending or breaking your differential housing.

What is also common with them is that they work very well at lessening the pinion rise during WOT (especially with boosted cars) which can be damaging to other parts. Often times I see driveshafts scrap the underbody due to the soft rubber diff bushing deflection, and other times I see and have experienced severe vibrations due to driveline working angles becoming too far off.

A major benefit to these is that they help reduce the sag in the factory bushings and help prevent the EVER SO COMMON driver side rear diff bushing crack/split occurrence. If you are reading this thread, there is a solid chance you have a damaged stock diff bushing or will have one. Thanks Ford!

Wheel-Hop wise: I usually have people work from the "outside, in" - and differential modifications are typically the last parts I suggest when dealing with a customer one-on-one.

Spring Rates:
I have found that stiffer rate/working springs in the rear of the car help lessen the effects of wheel-hop, overall. HOWEVER, I have also found that going too high with spring rate with a stock damper/shock can and will worsen wheel-hop in many cases. My theory is that the stiffer spring applies more "hit" to the tire, which then promotes tire spin. If the tire does not spin instantly, the car squats and the stiffer spring has more force to push the car back up and with a stock shock (which has weak extension control) you have uncontrolled oscillation. We found an 740-800lb/in spring to be ideal for wheel-hop on a stock rear shock, both PP and non-PP shocks. Once shocks are added, I have not experienced a spring "too stiff" in terms of diminishing returns on eliminating wheel-hop.

Aftermarket Rear shocks:
In most all cases, I have found a rear shock upgrade to help with wheel-hop AND just about every other performance aspect. Whether it be the Koni STR.T, to the Steeda Fixed - up to a higher end or a double Adjustable, I have found better valved dampers help with EVERYTHING. Not surprising as the IRS system is moving a lot. Better control = better performance.

Tires:
Back to the very beginning opening statement. Better traction means less wheel-hop. Tires are the very most important part of having a better performing vehicle. Tires are a make or break deal - whether it is on the drag strip or the road course, or even canyon carving. When you see the OEMs going to the wider and better compound tires on the higher level performance builds you see smart thinking. Better tire = better performance without adding chassis/suspension induced NVH.


TIPS & TRICKS
When flogging my PP GT with MT82 Transmission and 3.73 gears on street radial tires (stock and aftermarket) I found a few things to really help with wheel-hop.

-Tire Pressure: I had best luck with the stock tires in the 25-27psi range. When I raced at a drag strip, I would use about 25-26. On the street, I would typically stay "just low enough" to prevent having to see the TPMS light on the dash.

-Shifting: I found that powershifting the 1-2 ALWAYS made my wheel hop worse. Staying WOT on the go pedal just doesnt work well on "street tires" So I would rev out 1st gear as much as possible (based on mods and tunes) and just give it a very quick speed shift. I also found that revving 1st to 7200 or even higher resulted in less hop on the shift, every single time.

***Below images are two exact same cars. Both GT PP cars, both on the same wheels and tires (drag radials)...both launching with launch control at 3000 RPM with Advancetrac/TC OFF - - ALL variables the same except the smooth curve is with RLCA bearings (BK081) and the wavy graph is with stock RLCA bushings***

I am always available to chat - so feel free to give me a ring during business hours at 813-986-9302 if you want to brainstorm. :cheers:

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