What do we know about the 2018?

[EXP Jawa]

So....this is purely speculation??

Well, he cites the voices in his head, so... :headbonk:

I think that if Ford does do an Ecoboost V6, it won't be the 3.7L version. Here's why I think that - if they used that motor, it would likely upstage the Coyote, much as it already does in F-150. But for Mustang, they're too historically/emotionally invested in the V8 as the power for the GT model, and I bet that Ford would be reluctant to upset that. Even with pending MPG requirements, they know that they'd piss off the fan base if they ever did that.

So, 5.0L V8 remains for GT, which means that a turbo V6 has one of two options - 1) a future SVT/SVO type model or 2) a replacement for the current NA V6. I personally believe that Ford will keep the 5.2L around for SVT for some time to come, so that leaves option #2. If the NA 3.7L is replaced in the lineup with a turbo V6, then its more likely to be the 2.7L Ecoboost (or a variation of it) that's in F-150 already.

In that case, then it makes sense to flip the 2.3L EB and 2.7L EB models in the lineup. The 2.3L becomes the base model, the 2.7L V6 is the mid-level model, and the 5.0L remains top dog in the GT. Then everything then gets 5-10% bumps in output to remain competitive. Whether this happens at '18MY, or is held for S650 is hard to say, but maybe it'll be a combination of events. That's all assuming that they don't simply drop the V6 and go back to a two-engine line up...

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[Stroked84]

I think that if Ford does do an Ecoboost V6, it won't be the 3.7L version.

I'm very much on the fence with this. I see your point with the emotional investment in the V8, but I would've never expected to see them drop the 5.0 in favor of the 4.6 years back. But they did it.

Personally, I don't think they would do a 2.3L turbo4 AND a 2.7L twinturbo6. It doesn't make sense to me. The v6 is staying as long as it's the cheapest to manufacture for the rental fleets. As soon as the turbo4 breaks a cost to manufacture number, I think they drop the v6 completely and go back to a two engine lineup (not counting SE vehicles.)

I also think they keep the v8, but shrink it and turbocharge it. I think it's more likely for Ford to have a 2.3L turbo4 base model and 4.#L twinturbo8 GT, than it is for them to have a 2.3L turbo4, 2.7L twinturbo6, and a V8.

I think if they did shoehorn a twinturbo6 middle child into the lineup it would have to be hamstrung too much to fall between the 4 and 8. If it was even remotely close to the GT, it would be the smarter buy (from a performance standpoint) because you could throw on an intake/exhaust and crank up the boost to beat a GT for less money. If it's too gimped it just wouldn't warrant the price premium over the 4cyl.

TLDR- Maintaining three different engine options doesn't make sense long term. Hanging onto a budget friendly fleet car is different than equally supporting three different engine trims , IMO.

[Excuse typos, on phone.]

 

[marjen]

I think the existing V6 will continue to exist just for the rental fleets. I dont see them having turbos available for rental.

I would like to see either a bumped turbo 4 similar to what they did with the Focus RS or a turbo 6. If they can push one of those to 350/350 range, that would be a sweet car.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

I definitely don't think the 5.0 will make it to the S650

 

[stang77]

It would be pretty sweet, though those were just my wild, crazy ramblings

Even at 375HP for the V6TT, with the GT bumped to 455-465, that's a notable difference, and it would make for a better (clearer) story at the dealer between the different models.

We're actually considering an Explorer Sport (with the 365HP 3.7 V6 TT), and that motor is terrific, smooth, tons of torque all combined with pretty outstanding mileage.

That V6TT with a tune would be insane.

 

[stang77]

I definitely don't think the 5.0 will make it to the S650

Neither do I. Ford seems all in on the forced induction engines. Take a look at the Raptor and the GT.

 

[EXP Jawa]

I guess time will tell. Personally, I think the 5.0L will stay around for awhile for F-150, and as such, it'll be available for Mustang. Regarding the other motors, its hard to say, and it may also depend on the market/region where the car is sold. Obviously, larger displacement motors are more costly to own in Europe, so maybe they'd drop the V8 there, who knows? Of course, we've seen that European customers are willing to pay for it, and the V8 is as much of the mystique (Mustique?) as anything. Regarding the switch from pushrod 5.0L to the 4.6L, well I get why they did that. The old Windsor family couldn't keep up with changing requirements. But the GT still retained a V8 - what I was getting at was more about whether they'd drop the V8 entirely.

As a side note, in the back of my mind, I still have the feeling that using smaller turbo engines as a means of meeting EPA/CAFE regulations is going to bite Ford in the long term. Essentially, its kind of, sort of, a dodge since the EPA test doesn't really load a turbo like a real driver would. But sooner or later, either the MPG mismatch will generate customer backlash or the test will become more realistic. At which point, Ford will be heavily invested in turbo motors that are suddenly not in favor anymore. At least that's something I'm worried about, but of course, may never be an issue. But if so, the whole "Ecoboost" thing might go away...

 

[Bullitt]

I think the existing V6 will continue to exist just for the rental fleets. I dont see them having turbos available for rental.

You would think this would be true, but on a recent trip to Orlando, most of the rental convertibles were ecoboosts. Whether Ford is giving them incentives to do so or they think the customers prefer it for better fuel economy I don't know. All I know is there were a ton of ecoboost convertible rentals in Florida.

 

[Blue Horse]

Well, he cites the voices in his head, so... :headbonk:

I think that if Ford does do an Ecoboost V6, it won't be the 3.7L version. Here's why I think that - if they used that motor, it would likely upstage the Coyote, much as it already does in F-150. But for Mustang, they're too historically/emotionally invested in the V8 as the power for the GT model, and I bet that Ford would be reluctant to upset that. Even with pending MPG requirements, they know that they'd piss off the fan base if they ever did that.

So, 5.0L V8 remains for GT, which means that a turbo V6 has one of two options - 1) a future SVT/SVO type model or 2) a replacement for the current NA V6. I personally believe that Ford will keep the 5.2L around for SVT for some time to come, so that leaves option #2. If the NA 3.7L is replaced in the lineup with a turbo V6, then its more likely to be the 2.7L Ecoboost (or a variation of it) that's in F-150 already.

In that case, then it makes sense to flip the 2.3L EB and 2.7L EB models in the lineup. The 2.3L becomes the base model, the 2.7L V6 is the mid-level model, and the 5.0L remains top dog in the GT. Then everything then gets 5-10% bumps in output to remain competitive. Whether this happens at '18MY, or is held for S650 is hard to say, but maybe it'll be a combination of events. That's all assuming that they don't simply drop the V6 and go back to a two-engine line up...

1974 Mustang II, NO V8 engine was offered,did Ford care then,up coming CAFE US Gov"t standards for MPG, I say the V8 is going to be NO longer in the Mustang, pissed off or not,the end is very very near for the V8 engine.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

I guess time will tell. Personally, I think the 5.0L will stay around for awhile for F-150, and as such, it'll be available for Mustang. Regarding the other motors, its hard to say, and it may also depend on the market/region where the car is sold. Obviously, larger displacement motors are more costly to own in Europe, so maybe they'd drop the V8 there, who knows? Of course, we've seen that European customers are willing to pay for it, and the V8 is as much of the mystique (Mustique?) as anything. Regarding the switch from pushrod 5.0L to the 4.6L, well I get why they did that. The old Windsor family couldn't keep up with changing requirements. But the GT still retained a V8 - what I was getting at was more about whether they'd drop the V8 entirely.

As a side note, in the back of my mind, I still have the feeling that using smaller turbo engines as a means of meeting EPA/CAFE regulations is going to bite Ford in the long term. Essentially, its kind of, sort of, a dodge since the EPA test doesn't really load a turbo like a real driver would. But sooner or later, either the MPG mismatch will generate customer backlash or the test will become more realistic. At which point, Ford will be heavily invested in turbo motors that are suddenly not in favor anymore. At least that's something I'm worried about, but of course, may never be an issue. But if so, the whole "Ecoboost" thing might go away...

Europeans get taxed based on displacement so they would benefit the most from Ford changing the GT to a lower displacement turbocharged engine. I was just looking at a 2012 Audi S5 in the parking lot at work, it has a V8 in it but if you went and bought a new S5 today it comes with a 3 liter turbocharged V6.

Regarding the MPG comment, that doomsday scenario is highly unrealistic. It's very easy for me to average 24mpg in mixed driving without hypermiling and get over 30mpg on highway trips and that's with a tune and bolt-ons. That whole unrealistic mpg thing has been blown out of proportion mostly by GT owners.

I don't doubt that the S650 could come with a V8 option I just don't think they would do another big refresh and keep the same engine that they had in the S197 and S550

 

[RNMAAS]

You would think this would be true, but on a recent trip to Orlando, most of the rental convertibles were ecoboosts. Whether Ford is giving them incentives to do so or they think the customers prefer it for better fuel economy I don't know. All I know is there were a ton of ecoboost convertible rentals in Florida.

Interesting about the ecoboost convertible rentals. Probably because it can be optioned with navigation, I don't think fuel economy is the reason. There isn't that much of a difference in fuel economy between the V6 and the ecoboost.

That's probably an arguement against the V6, but I just wish they would give us the option of getting what we want and let the market decide. It's a global car so I am sure there would be plenty of demand for all 3 versions of engine.

 

[Kevin08]

I haven't seen any V6 rentals in FL. Both the Ecoboost and the Ecoboost Convertible are what's offered at my location.

Mustangs are 'premium' rentals, and people have certain expectations of amenities when it comes to that: leather and gizmos. The V6 can't offer any of those.

It's not the nav option because every rental company tries to add on their own GPS option for an extra fee. Same for stuff like Sirius.

 

[RNMAAS]

What I am trying to put forth is an arguement that the V6 be optioned similar to the ecoboost. There is no reason other than Ford Marketing to limit the V6 choices.

I think there is enough global demand for the car so that we should be able to get all 3 engines with option packages that are similar (not necessarily identical).

Having the V6 with minimal options doesn't make sense when you can get the new Camaro in whatever flavor you want.

 

[Macfarland]

Neither do I. Ford seems all in on the forced induction engines. Take a look at the Raptor and the GT.

I have a feeling that Ford will do what Audi did with the refresh of its A5/S5 lineup. The S5 dropped the V8 in favor of a Supercharged V6 and left the natural aspirated V8 to the RS5 trim and of course the I4 turbo in its A5 configuration.

For the S650, Ford will probably keep the natural aspirated V6 for fleet/rental sales, a more powerful EcoBoost I4, a 450+ hp V6 turbo for the GT and a natural aspirated V8 for its specialty Mustangs such as the GT350/500, Mach 1 and Boss.

Hopefully I'm wrong because a Mustang GT without a V8 is not a Mustang GT.

 

[EXP Jawa]

That's not really apples/apples. With the S4/S5 models, Audi went from a bi-turbo V6 to a V8 to a supercharged V6. Its not like the model had a lot of brand equity invested in the V8. Same thing with BMW's M3/4 models - I4 to I6 to V8 to turbo I6. The engine configuration doesn't define the model.

That's very different from the Mustang GT, which has always, always been defined as a V8 car (with the minor exception of the Fox-body Turbo GT, but that was short-lived and still concurrent with a V8 GT). I still say that even out through the S650 run, there with be fairly low-cost V8s available to the Mustang team by way the truck models. There will be no real good reason not to keep the GT a V8 car. If they had to tool an engine specifically for Mustang, it'd be different, but that isn't the case.

Again, the Mustang buyer & fan base is too heavily invested in the GT being a V8 car as part of its core character for Ford to ever seriously consider deleting it, and they know it. It's just going to evolve in output. My guess is around 450HP for '18MY update, then around 475-480HP for S650. At least that's my thinking.

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