VMP gen 3r everyones thoughts

[Coyotes55086]

So I think I'm pulling the trigger . Ive had my eye on the gen 3r for a couple years now. Its seems to be what I'm looking for in a blower . Offers that low end crazy kick in the pants, lots of rooms for future upgrades and power. What are your guys thoughts on this blower? How would this blower be mostly different from a centri?

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[Logan@Lethal]

Extremely capable blower. Send me a message when you can.

 

[SolarFlare]

O.....M....G

 

[Coyotes55086]

Extremely capable blower. Send me a message when you can.

brother I'm such a newb here I cant find where to send a pm

 

[Burkey]

So I think I'm pulling the trigger . Ive had my eye on the gen 3r for a couple years now. Its seems to be what I'm looking for in a blower . Offers that low end crazy kick in the pants, lots of rooms for future upgrades and power. What are your guys thoughts on this blower? How would this blower be mostly different from a centri?

At this stage in the game, I’d be ignoring any PD blower that isn’t using an inverted intercooler. Given that Eaton have released the 3100 rotor pack, the 2650 will soon be yesterday’s hero also.
I‘d be looking at the Loki or Odin blowers from VMP or the Edelbrock unit at this stage.

 

[Beano]

@Burkey: It all really depends on what you’re after. Fitting phenolic spacers to the intake and adding a heat-blanket underneath will do a helluva lot to give excellent performance from something like the VMP Gen3R.

Yes, if you’re a purist, after that last ounce of hp, perhaps the inverted solution will give you that tiny bit more, same goes for a larger blower. Always bear in mind larger blowers will make more hp vs a smaller unit, at the same rpm, but will also cause higher parasitic losses to the engine.

It’s all horses for courses, one should decide what hp levels one are after, and design around that. Biggest is not always better for every application. My upcoming build is my Roush TVS making way for my Gen3R I got last year during the BF sale. Just awaiting my injectors and pumps I got this time around.

Anyway, if I want to build both the ultimate street-racer or drag-killer, it certainly will be a twin-turbo setup, not a pd-based one. A lot more up to be had from twin snails at the same boost-pressure.

 

[Slopoke]

 

[Coyotes55086]

Anyone else wanna chime in ?

 

[Beano]

Don't face-palm yourself like that, not good for the grey-matter ;)

 

[Angrey]

The Gen3R is the best "value" positive blower you can buy.

For a very long time, twin screw blowers were more expensive (markedly so) because the cost of manufacturing is higher. The Eaton TVS platform is also very widely used so there's economies of scale involved and they're able to secure large scale contracts with auto manufacturers which keeps their volume high and their production costs lower.

Recently, the auto community has kinda lost sight of the idea that twin screw blowers are just better (they just are, adiabatically and any fair apples/apples comparison, a twin screw blower outperforms a roots blower, it's just a FACT).

So it used to be, purchase a twin screw and pay more money (for a better blower) OR, go value and get MOST of the capabilities of the TS in a roots setup.

The roots blower variants have gradually crept upward (using all sorts of marketing tricks and porting variants) and combined with the flipped architecture and the much improved cooling capabilities, the top of the line roots variants are now pretty much the same cost as a competing product from Whipple. It makes ZERO sense to pay the same amount of money for a volumetrically similar roots vs a twin screw. (my personal opinion). But just like Dodge is selling a bunch of fat, bloated, heavy cars with 30 year old parts bin technology (and because the engine output number is high and they have a retro body look) people are paying. It doesn't make sense, but you can hardly blame Dodge, they're laughing all the way to the bank.

The Gen3R is probably the last of the previous era where there was a marked price savings for roots over a TS setup (from Whipple or KB).

There's also a volumetric arms race for volume going on and that means every other year a new bigger platform (even though most people will never max out the capabilities of the current systems). Point is, it's GREAT for sales, but waiting around for a 3.1L roots blower when the current 2650 series are just as capable of you stopping at 850 hp makes little sense (but you're gonna see a lot of guys doing it).

Bottom line, for the best "value" (as in amount of benefit compared against the amount of cost) the Gen3R is probably the best PD option right now. Once you step into the 2650 variants, all the sudden the pricing makes it a better decision to go whipple. (again, that's my opinion).

So I'd say your choice is to cash in on the gen3R and savings or go with whipple. I'd never pay the same amount as a very capable whipple gen 5 3.0 for a roots blower. I would however, buy a roots blower if it saved me a couple of stacks and that savings meant I could upgrade other key systems.

 

[Coyotes55086]

The Gen3R is the best "value" positive blower you can buy.

For a very long time, twin screw blowers were more expensive (markedly so) because the cost of manufacturing is higher. The Eaton TVS platform is also very widely used so there's economies of scale involved and they're able to secure large scale contracts with auto manufacturers which keeps their volume high and their production costs lower.

Recently, the auto community has kinda lost sight of the idea that twin screw blowers are just better (they just are, adiabatically and any fair apples/apples comparison, a twin screw blower outperforms a roots blower, it's just a FACT).

So it used to be, purchase a twin screw and pay more money (for a better blower) OR, go value and get MOST of the capabilities of the TS in a roots setup.

The roots blower variants have gradually crept upward (using all sorts of marketing tricks and porting variants) and combined with the flipped architecture and the much improved cooling capabilities, the top of the line roots variants are now pretty much the same cost as a competing product from Whipple. It makes ZERO sense to pay the same amount of money for a volumetrically similar roots vs a twin screw. (my personal opinion). But just like Dodge is selling a bunch of fat, bloated, heavy cars with 30 year old parts bin technology (and because the engine output number is high and they have a retro body look) people are paying. It doesn't make sense, but you can hardly blame Dodge, they're laughing all the way to the bank.

The Gen3R is probably the last of the previous era where there was a marked price savings for roots over a TS setup (from Whipple or KB).

There's also a volumetric arms race for volume going on and that means every other year a new bigger platform (even though most people will never max out the capabilities of the current systems). Point is, it's GREAT for sales, but waiting around for a 3.1L roots blower when the current 2650 series are just as capable of you stopping at 850 hp makes little sense (but you're gonna see a lot of guys doing it).

Bottom line, for the best "value" (as in amount of benefit compared against the amount of cost) the Gen3R is probably the best PD option right now. Once you step into the 2650 variants, all the sudden the pricing makes it a better decision to go whipple. (again, that's my opinion).

So I'd say your choice is to cash in on the gen3R and savings or go with whipple. I'd never pay the same amount as a very capable whipple gen 5 3.0 for a roots blower. I would however, buy a roots blower if it saved me a couple of stacks and that savings meant I could upgrade other key systems.

brother, I thank you so much for your response. it seems you really know your stuff when it comes to it . I value your opinion . from what I have seen in vmp videos and race videos , dyno graphs and opinions the vmp seems to really shine to me . it's also on a great sale at the moment.

the thing i wish i understood more about Is how the tvs will pull in higher rpms . I mean maybe it wont uoull as hard as a centri, but I'm sure its going to produce smiles all way around?

 

[Angrey]

brother, I thank you so much for your response. it seems you really know your stuff when it comes to it . I value your opinion . from what I have seen in vmp videos and race videos , dyno graphs and opinions the vmp seems to really shine to me . it's also on a great sale at the moment.

the thing i wish i understood more about Is how the tvs will pull in higher rpms . I mean maybe it wont uoull as hard as a centri, but I'm sure its going to produce smiles all way around?

The roots really shines on it's initial hit/response and low end power/torque. It'll still make power up top but won't be ask peaky as a centrifugal.

If you're going gen 3R, I'd recommend lurking the classifieds for a bit or finding someone who has a barely used setup that's looking to swap up to an Odin or when the new 3.1L comes out there'll be people dumping the 2.65 Odin/Loki kits to upgrade.

 

[Beano]

As Angrey has said, the twin-screw though will be the bee’s knees, if you have the finding for that, go for it over roots-style/TVS, as you will see lower compressor discharge air-temps, lower parasitic losses and of course, those points above courtesy the higher adiabatic efficiency of the twin-screw compressors.

I might still just use my VMP Gen3R head-unit on my Falcon XR8, replacing the tiny 1.9L factory blower on it and grab a 3l Whipple for my Moostang, or go with a twin-turbo setup for it, which will be my preferenc.

I owned a 400rwkw Barra I6 powered Ford FPV Tornado UTE, that 6 turbo felt like a car from hell when the turbo spooled up. Just so violent vs the linear power-delivery from roots or pd blowers.

Edit: Anyway ignore my turbo ramblings, Angrey’s advice above very good to follow.

 

[Burkey]

@Burkey: It all really depends on what you’re after. Fitting phenolic spacers to the intake and adding a heat-blanket underneath will do a helluva lot to give excellent performance from something like the VMP Gen3R.

Yes, if you’re a purist, after that last ounce of hp, perhaps the inverted solution will give you that tiny bit more, same goes for a larger blower. Always bear in mind larger blowers will make more hp vs a smaller unit, at the same rpm, but will also cause higher parasitic losses to the engine.

It’s all horses for courses, one should decide what hp levels one are after, and design around that. Biggest is not always better for every application. My upcoming build is my Roush TVS making way for my Gen3R I got last year during the BF sale. Just awaiting my injectors and pumps I got this time around.

Anyway, if I want to build both the ultimate street-racer or drag-killer, it certainly will be a twin-turbo setup, not a pd-based one. A lot more up to be had from twin snails at the same boost-pressure.

I agree that fitting phenolics will improve the IAT’s, the point is that a larger intercooler is a larger intercooler. Personally, based on my experience with the phenolic spacers, I wouldn’t fit ANY blower without them.
Combine phenolics with an inverted intercooler and you have the best opportunity to avoid high IAT’s.
The other point that seems lost on some people is the bit where the inverted blowers offer a longer inlet port. If you take a look at a Gen 2 Whipple, there is no ”length” whatsoever. Phenolic spacers also lengthen the port very slightly.
The concept of using a larger blower for the same boost isn’t novel. Look at what Whipple are doing, or what Eaton have done. The
The 3100 won’t be light-years ahead of the 2650 but I’d expect people to be picking up the 2650 at a discounted price at some point in the near future.
From what I can see, the difference in price is $450 USD. Personally, at that price difference, I wouldn’t even look at the Gen3R based on my experience of swapping out my Gen 2 Whipple for the Edelbrock unit.
Not a chance.
Food for thought.

 

[WhiteyDog]

I agree that fitting phenolics will improve the IAT’s, the point is that a larger intercooler is a larger intercooler. Personally, based on my experience with the phenolic spacers, I wouldn’t fit ANY blower without them.
Combine phenolics with an inverted intercooler and you have the best opportunity to avoid high IAT’s.
The other point that seems lost on some people is the bit where the inverted blowers offer a longer inlet port. If you take a look at a Gen 2 Whipple, there is no ”length” whatsoever. Phenolic spacers also lengthen the port very slightly.
The concept of using a larger blower for the same boost isn’t novel. Look at what Whipple are doing, or what Eaton have done. The
The 3100 won’t be light-years ahead of the 2650 but I’d expect people to be picking up the 2650 at a discounted price at some point in the near future.
From what I can see, the difference in price is $450 USD. Personally, at that price difference, I wouldn’t even look at the Gen3R based on my experience of swapping out my Gen 2 Whipple for the Edelbrock unit.
Not a chance.
Food for thought.

I can personally attest to and agree with the highlighted statements.

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