Upgrading Head Gasket & Studs Prior to Bigger Turbo?

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Hi All,

Looking for input from anyone with direct experience here. I've solicited a couple opinions from tuners and looking for any additional input as well.

I'm looking to put on an NX2 in the near future. I'm curious to know if it would be advisable to upgrade the head gasket and install studs prior to the turbo upgrade. I'm only going to be on 91oct so ~400WTQ and 350WHP. One tuner said at those power levels there's no perceptible risk of head gasket failure, at least not more than on a stock turbo at its limits. Another tuner said if you're going to do a head gasket don't bother just do a built block as a thrown rod is a real risk with these motors too. And yet others I've read on this forum and others have developed leaking gaskets with bigger turbos pushing <400whp.

Absent of any other constraints, sure a head gasket and studs can't hurt and might help. But my question is what are the odds? Not that I expect anyone to know, so just looking for anecdotal experiences I suppose. If the risk is fairly low I'll save the ~15hrs time (ford quotes 10, I'm sure it will take me more) and money and just take my chances. If the head gasket really is a risk at 350whp I'll just bite the bullet and do it now.

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[StealthStang]

IMO if the car has been fine upto now then your head gasket isnt out of tolerance and should be fine as the first tuner says, especially if its a performance pack car which has slightly better cooling. The automatic cars also are lower risk of blowing out the gasket due to smoother torque delivery and less risk of shock or lugging of the engine.

At the end of the day, these engines are open deck blocks, and they will always have a risk of head gasket failure, in fact its basically inevitable and depending on the power and strain the engine undergoes will determine when and how badly it fails. The only way to truly prevent it is by going to a built motor that uses a semi-closed deck. Stronger gaskets like what are on the Mustang HPP and Focus RS are band aid fixes and just buy a bit more time before the engine fails under the heavier expected use of those models (basically after the warranty expires).

Lastly an NX2 on pump gas is within the limits of the factory engine, its not really a "big turbo" in my opinion, more of a performance optimised turbo rather than the stock factory economy optimised turbo, the NX2 fills in the areas where the stock one runs out of puff and any decent tuner will make sure its not going to grenade the block if they know its going to be run mostly on pump gas.
If its a street car, just allow proper warm up and cool down, be smooth with the power (dont shift like an ape) use good fuel and oil and watch your temps and it should last a pretty long time on the NX2.

*PS I myself run full bolt on and an NX2 on pump gas. Though my car is for street and not track.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Greatly appreciate the input. Thought about it some more and power is power no matter how it’s made (assuming the power is made reliably). For whatever reason I was more hesitant to make say 350 on a bigger turbo than 350 with WMI on a stock turbo which makes no sense.

Decided to go with the NX2 on the stock block with a conservative tune and will keep an eye on things.

 

[DavidEcobeast]

If you have the mechanical know how I would strongly suggest removing the cylinder head and replacing the head gasket with the new revised (same as the Focus RS) G1FZ-6051-C. I would also install some CA 625+ M10 headstuds from Speed3performance as well. The job should take a weekend to perform. You will need a few special tools to time everything correctly.

I popped my head gasket with the Nx2 on methonal and am currently in the process of tear down. I used a borescope to inspect cylinder #3 (the culprit) and coolant is inside.
I may pull the engine to inspect the bottom end.

Ford's procedure is to replace the head gasket and head. Hopefully, the cylinder wall is not cracked.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Thanks for the suggestion.

Why do you recommend the updated RS gasket over say a supertech or JE?

Also how much boost were you running and approx how much TQ and HP?

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Thanks for the suggestion.

Why do you recommend the updated RS gasket over say a supertech or JE?

Also how much boost were you running and approx how much TQ and HP?

My guess is over 400 whp and torque.

The new Ford head gasket is affordable and good for up to 600 hp builds. It completely seals around the cylinder bore.
See the attached image

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Good news. Today I finally removed the head. The head gasket is definitely gone. Also, it looks like the head lifted. I see heavy indentations on the head where the bolt head sits. Not sure if the head will need or should be replaced at this time. The cylinders and pistons look good. It only costs about 400 for a new head, so I will probably just replace it.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Nice that the bottom end still looks good. Question is if the head gasket was already going before the head lift, since the head lift itself will blow any head gasket.

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Nice that the bottom end still looks good. Question is if the head gasket was already going before the head lift, since the head lift itself will blow any head gasket.

My guess is that the head bolts stretched and lost there clamping ability. With the block being a open deck design the head gasket got scrubed from cylinder movement and the cylinder pressure started pushing through washing away the material in-between the cylinders. Head gasket failure and lspi is probably what kills these engines. If all of that cylinder pressure were to escape into a water jacket the block would crack or explode.

The improved head gasket and CA 625+ head studs should help significantly. Better sealing and clamping force.

The weak link appears to be the head gasket, followed by the head bolts after 400 hp. The engine needs more exhaust flow. Bigger turbo, down pipe, and an exhaust system if pushed passed 375 hp (Which will require auxiliary octane) IMO. The cylinder head just does not flow well for high performance demands.

The next weak link would be the connecting rods I would image, once the head gasket and fasteners are addressed.

Now. As for the original post.
I was the type of guy who said that engine trouble will never happen to me. I know how to maintain my engine, I use the best oil/fuel/tuner/parts and I follow the proper driving techniques. With that said, well...
Stuff fails!

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Makes sense.

Back In the day when we were pushing SR20’s and 2jz’s hard we would upgrade the head gasket and studs as preventive maintenance and when not temp abused they would hold up pretty well all things considered. Nobody does this to our motors yet as far as I’ve seen and I wonder what they could handle if done. I suppose I should stop being lazy and find out for myself.

 

[StealthStang]

Are you sure you can use the Focus RS head gasket on the Mustang ? The cooling holes for the coolant jackets are in different spots. You might be able to use the head gasket from a 2.3L HPP mustang, last we discussed on a thread in this forums the HPP and RS engines were not the same as people believed. There are small differences.

Lastly personally i dont recommend the OP preventatively change the head gasket for a pump gas tune.
At that point you have more chance of a problem arising from removing the head and gasket prematurely than from the stock gasket failing on a sub 400HP tune.
Most pump tunes are going to be around 360-370HP anyway, my Roush one was around that and Roush guaranteed the drivetrain from problems for 3 years from date of installation.

Theres really no need to do it now at these power levels.

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Are you sure you can use the Focus RS head gasket on the Mustang ? The cooling holes for the coolant jackets are in different spots. You might be able to use the head gasket from a 2.3L HPP mustang, last we discussed on a thread in this forums the HPP and RS engines were not the same as people believed. There are small differences.

Lastly personally i dont recommend the OP preventatively change the head gasket for a pump gas tune.
At that point you have more chance of a problem arising from removing the head and gasket prematurely than from the stock gasket failing on a sub 400HP tune.
Most pump tunes are going to be around 360-370HP anyway, my Roush one was around that and Roush guaranteed the drivetrain from problems for 3 years from date of installation.

Theres really no need to do it now at these power levels.

The Focus RS and the Mustang 2.3 share the same head gasket now.

 

[StealthStang]

The Focus RS and the Mustang 2.3 share the same head gasket now.

So is this a facelift ecoboost mustang thing or has it always been the case ?

Ive seen the gaskets myself and the holes are indeed in different areas so im very surprised to hear this.

 

[Turbong]

The Focus RS and the Mustang 2.3 share the same head gasket now.

Since when? It's not revised it's clearly different in terms of cooling passages in different places for 2015+ EB from the RS which was the whole reason for the debacle when the RS had gasket failures for getting the wrong one, unless you have the HPP EB it is not the same . Be careful you don't mislead people into making an expensive mistake. I agree with stealthstang 100%, OP don't change things for the sake of changing especially with the amount of misinformation you find online.

 

[ice445]

The Focus RS and the Mustang 2.3 share the same head gasket now.

Pretty sure that's not true. The Focus RS engine is mounted transverse compared to the Mustang which is longitudinal. In every single instance I can think of where the same engine has different mounting directions, the head gasket ends up being different as a result because of different coolant flow.

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