Tuning Decisions

[15EBStang]

Ive been following Livernois since late 2009 and they were the first to the game and set a ton of EcoBoost records.

Dan Millen of Livernois has been tuning and setting world records racing since a young age. Do a search for Livernois Ecoboost and Dan Millen Livernois.

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[EcoSnake]

Ive been following Livernois since late 2009 and they were the first to the game and set a ton of EcoBoost records.

Dan Millen of Livernois has been tuning and setting world records racing since a young age. Do a search for Livernois Ecoboost and Dan Millen Livernois.

Thanks for the information, I haven't heard of them before this forum.

 

[15EBStang]

One of my all time favorite Livernois videos...

[ame]

 

[COBB Tuning]

...and don't discount the benefits of having a LOCAL tuner - someone at your altitude, running your gas, in your conditions, on YOUR car.
"Canned" tunes have their merit, but not once the mods start piling on.

Not trying to toss any more gasoline on this bonfire...

To add to Fredness' point - We don't recommend running any modifications without the proper tuning to account for them. Certain upgrades installed without proper tuning can create lean conditions leading to engine damage. Our Off The Shelf maps are designed specifically for certain fuels and modifications. These are all detailed in a map description in every Accessport so you'll always know which map is best for your vehicle. Also, if certain cars have issues under/overboosting due to high elevation or extreme cold, we release maps to compensate! Even with that said, a custom tune specific to your car will be better. That's we we have a worldwide Pro-Tuning network that uses our Accesstuner Software and can get every bit of power attainable through a more aggressive custom tune.

Kyle@COBB

 

[Anthony]

When developing our tunes, and tuner for this, and all of the other platforms out there, we made many decisions based on one focus in mind. Offering the absolute best results out there in all facets of tuning.

Adding "bells and whistles" onto a tuner is something that can be done rather simply, but we made a decision to focus on the quality of our tunes over trivial items that sound good on paper, but very few people actually utilize.

With all of our tuning experience on the EcoBoost, we have learned long ago that the most efficient tune, is the most powerful tune. meaning our 93 octane performance tune will get the best gas mileage, even trumping specially made economy tunes? Why is this? because an engine is it's most efficient when it is making the most power at a given airflow. If your car makes more power at 25% throttle than it did at 30% throttle before, now you can stay at the lower throttle/boost amount to maintain your speed or accelerate, making it use less fuel naturally.

This is why we have not done things like on the fly tune adjustments, because unless your changing parts, or completely changing the fuel used, there is no need to change the tune if it's done properly.

This is why the cars we build and tune basically own every record out there for EcoBoost platforms, because we churn out no BS results, and get the car to do everything we want right from the get go. No need for wasting time logging, or playing around with boost levels needlessly. We already do all of the R+D at our own facility on our own car, so we can do proper testing before it's release, rather than making our customers be the guinea pig.

At the end of the day there is only two things that matter, are you faster than the guy next to you? And is your tune safe? And we have proven time and time again that when we tune an EcoBoost, the answer is yes ;)

This ain't no poop either. My ecoboost f150 and fusion both get the best mileage at the 93 Oct tunes.

 

[Anthony]

I ordered the cobb. This will be the 3rd car I've bought it for. You will regret not choosing it over the others. :-)

You have used all the other tuners? And based your statement on personal experience with all the tuners available?

 

[COBB Tuning]

Just a few quick notes relevant to the topic:

1. We make a tuning device and tuning software. So do Livernois and SCT. Companies like Lund or BAMA use those tuning devices and software to create their own off the shelf maps or custom tunes. COBB has over 400 Protuners that have access to our software and can make custom tunes.

2. It is important to make sure the tuning software has all of the tuning tables available. If that is the case, the tuning potential out of any solution should be exactly the same. The big differences there will be how user friendly the tuning software is (the easier to use, the less time it takes to finish a tune), if the software offers any extra features you find beneficial, and how easily you can get in touch with your tuner of choice.

3. Some poopy forum guys don't trust us for whatever reason. If a letter from the OEM isn't good enough, oh well, can't convince everyone. But, we have been tuning turbo-charged cars via ECU flashing since 2003 and turbo-charged direct injected motors since 2006. Nobody has more turbo-charged, factory ECU tuning experience than COBB. We don't focus on a vehicle brand, we are experts on small displacement turbo-charged motors.

4. We've made cars go pretty fast too, all on the factory ECU just using the Accessport and Accesstuner for tuning. Almost 2000WHP and 7s in the 1.4 mile: [ame]

Ian

 

[Moderator]

Back on topic. If you have a specific complaint or feedback to lodge against a seller, do it in this subforum specifically created for it so it can be addressed in a relevant thread. And if you want to argue with each other take it to PM.

 

[tj@steeda]

Just as an update ... we are still testing & refining our tunes. When available ... we will pair them with our Steeda CAI.

We want to make sure the tune is just right ... going the extra mile to make sure the tunes are top notch from a power, reliability & safety standpoint.

In the meantime ...register here for a chance to win a $300 gift card from Steeda!

http://www.steeda.com/giveaway/

I will keep you apprised as to when our tune is dialed in.

Best Regards

TJ

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Just a few quick notes relevant to the topic:

1. We make a tuning device and tuning software. So do Livernois and SCT. Companies like Lund or BAMA use those tuning devices and software to create their own off the shelf maps or custom tunes. COBB has over 400 Protuners that have access to our software and can make custom tunes.

2. It is important to make sure the tuning software has all of the tuning tables available. If that is the case, the tuning potential out of any solution should be exactly the same. The big differences there will be how user friendly the tuning software is (the easier to use, the less time it takes to finish a tune), if the software offers any extra features you find beneficial, and how easily you can get in touch with your tuner of choice.

3. Some poopy forum guys don't trust us for whatever reason. If a letter from the OEM isn't good enough, oh well, can't convince everyone. But, we have been tuning turbo-charged cars via ECU flashing since 2003 and turbo-charged direct injected motors since 2006. Nobody has more turbo-charged, factory ECU tuning experience than COBB. We don't focus on a vehicle brand, we are experts on small displacement turbo-charged motors.

4. We've made cars go pretty fast too, all on the factory ECU just using the Accessport and Accesstuner for tuning. Almost 2000WHP and 7s in the 1.4 mile:

Ian

Re: 1. Livernois tunes.

Re: 3. Since you brought it up, I'm disappointed that you accept a letter from customer service that had no technical information in it to validate selling a part. I suggest studying higher order forces/vibrations associated w/ horizontally opposed engines...this might make you think twice about continuing to sell a billet pulley w/ lesser mass and no elastomer like the factory provides. I can suggest engineering texts for you to look at, and will help explain what you find therein if need be. You also might look into air cooled VW engines and the benefits of dampers at higher RPM/output and some of the fatigue cracking of cases and excess main bearing wear they see w/o them. PM me if you want some references.

Since you say you are "experts" w/ small turbo engines, why are your dyno numbers on par w/ or lower than what others are offering? Why have we not seen any real world testing of your car to substantiate any claims?

Re: 4. When you say 'we'...who exactly do you mean? You provided the software for the team? You did the tuning? I was under the impression that English Racing did the tuning? If they did the tuning, isn't it a little misleading to say 'you' made the car go fast?

Also, are you sure about that 2000rwhp? 7.80s at 182ish mph doesn't seem right for that power...after a quick search, 1572 seems more reasonable. An extra Mustang GT get thrown in there?

You state that you provide software to tuners, yet you do offer OTS tunes. You state that some mods are not always best paired w/ an OTS tune, and suggest what a you call a 'protune' at this point. This seems to necessitate a few extra things - 1. You must have someone near you who is familiar w/ the AP soft/hardware, and 2. I'm assuming this 'protune' isn't free, like your updated OTS tunes. So then on top of the initial purchase price, a customer has to then purchase a 'protuners' time? Approximately how much more is that going to cost...$75-100+/hr?

 

[foghat]

Since you say you are "experts" w/ small turbo engines, why are your dyno numbers on par w/ or lower than what others are offering? Why have we not seen any real world testing of your car to substantiate any claims?

One reason may be they use a Mustang dyno vs. the dynojets seemingly used by everyone else.

You state that you provide software to tuners, yet you do offer OTS tunes. You state that some mods are not always best paired w/ an OTS tune, and suggest what a you call a 'protune' at this point. This seems to necessitate a few extra things - 1. You must have someone near you who is familiar w/ the AP soft/hardware, and 2. I'm assuming this 'protune' isn't free, like your updated OTS tunes. So then on top of the initial purchase price, a customer has to then purchase a 'protuners' time? Approximately how much more is that going to cost...$75-100+/hr?

They generally offer tunes for stock cars (and for couple octanes) and then tunes for the more popular hardware upgrade combinations. If you have a combination of hardware not supported by the ots maps, then ya - you need a protune.

How is this different than any other non-protune you buy? What does livernois do/offer for folks who are not local to them? Not being flip, I am just not understanding the attack on Cobb over this.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

Re: 1. Livernois tunes.

Re: 3. Since you brought it up, I'm disappointed that you accept a letter from customer service that had no technical information in it to validate selling a part. I suggest studying higher order forces/vibrations associated w/ horizontally opposed engines...this might make you think twice about continuing to sell a billet pulley w/ lesser mass and no elastomer like the factory provides. I can suggest engineering texts for you to look at, and will help explain what you find therein if need be. You also might look into air cooled VW engines and the benefits of dampers at higher RPM/output and some of the fatigue cracking of cases and excess main bearing wear they see w/o them. PM me if you want some references.

Since you say you are "experts" w/ small turbo engines, why are your dyno numbers on par w/ or lower than what others are offering? Why have we not seen any real world testing of your car to substantiate any claims?

Re: 4. When you say 'we'...who exactly do you mean? You provided the software for the team? You did the tuning? I was under the impression that English Racing did the tuning? If they did the tuning, isn't it a little misleading to say 'you' made the car go fast?

Also, are you sure about that 2000rwhp? 7.80s at 182ish mph doesn't seem right for that power...after a quick search, 1572 seems more reasonable. An extra Mustang GT get thrown in there?

You state that you provide software to tuners, yet you do offer OTS tunes. You state that some mods are not always best paired w/ an OTS tune, and suggest what a you call a 'protune' at this point. This seems to necessitate a few extra things - 1. You must have someone near you who is familiar w/ the AP soft/hardware, and 2. I'm assuming this 'protune' isn't free, like your updated OTS tunes. So then on top of the initial purchase price, a customer has to then purchase a 'protuners' time? Approximately how much more is that going to cost...$75-100+/hr?

Idk anything about all the other stuff but that last point does kind of bother me with the COBB tuner. I don't want to pay $500 and then on top of that pay someone near me to tune it when I add things on. Whereas with Bama I can just tell them what I have up front and pay 400

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

One reason may be they use a Mustang dyno vs. the dynojets seemingly used by everyone else.

They generally offer tunes for stock cars (and for couple octanes) and then tunes for the more popular hardware upgrade combinations. If you have a combination of hardware not supported by the ots maps, then ya - you need a protune.

How is this different than any other non-protune you buy? What does livernois do/offer for folks who are not local to them? Not being flip, I am just not understanding the attack on Cobb over this.

No attack, just questions.

Per Livernois' webpage here:
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/2015%252b-Mustang-2.3-Ecoboost-Tuner.html

"Unlike other tuners on the market, Livernois' MyCalibrator offers true "grow with you" support. We have custom tunes to fit all of our performance upgrade packages, and can even custom modify our standard tunes to better fit your needs."

I'm not sure what all this entails, but it sounds promising...

 

[EcoSnake]

Pro/dyno tunes are always better than anything you get by mail or email. It's your car, tuning is a area you don't want to take lightly. Know people who have blown their motors with a bad etune and haven't had a working car in a year.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Pro/dyno tunes are always better than anything you get by mail or email. It's your car, tuning is a area you don't want to take lightly. Know people who have blown their motors with a bad etune and haven't had a working car in a year.

I'd say it depends on the tuner. I've never tuned on a dyno before...only used datalogs to make adjustments, but from what I understand, dynos don't load the engine like actual driving does. Same goes for drag racing vs mile events, etc.

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