Supercharger/Regrets

[Mike02z]

I don't have a S550 Supercharged Mustang but I've had multiple Supercharged cars.

The way I look at longevity is that Ford designs an engine to go 200k miles with proper maintenance. Due to this, there is a lot of room to push to higher power levels as the motors are built to last. The question becomes how much do you shorten the life of the engine? Maybe with modest boost you get 100k miles, maybe 50k. It depends on a lot of factors including driving style and additional power you are adding.

Also note that you may never have an engine failure due to boost. The higher HP you go, the more other parts you're likely to break. My shop can build a 8 second car. The problem is it spends most of it's time in the shop as parts break when pushing it too hard.

As long as you understand the risks, going with a Super Charger with mild boost should be relatively safe. The more power, the more supporting mods you should do ie, clutch, half shafts etc.

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[Angry50]

I don't have a S550 Supercharged Mustang but I've had multiple Supercharged cars.

The way I look at longevity is that Ford designs an engine to go 200k miles with proper maintenance. Due to this, there is a lot of room to push to higher power levels as the motors are built to last. The question becomes how much do you shorten the life of the engine? Maybe with modest boost you get 100k miles, maybe 50k. It depends on a lot of factors including driving style and additional power you are adding.

Also note that you may never have an engine failure due to boost. The higher HP you go, the more other parts you're likely to break. My shop can build a 8 second car. The problem is it spends most of it's time in the shop as parts break when pushing it too hard.

As long as you understand the risks, going with a Super Charger with mild boost should be relatively safe. The more power, the more supporting mods you should do ie, clutch, half shafts etc.

i dont know where you get these numbers from but unless its a catastrophic failure its all maintenance. so not sure what you mean by lasting 200k miles.. there is not an explode limit.. parts wear. if using proper oil there is no reason your pistons should wear faster than normal.. there are plenty of 8-9sec cars that are not in the shop each weekend too.. point is boosted at 600whp with a good tune will last longer than you will probably have the car and onward.. if youre nervous you can replace some of the weaker points to get more ease of mind.

 

[Mike02z]

i dont know where you get these numbers from but unless its a catastrophic failure its all maintenance. so not sure what you mean by lasting 200k miles.. there is not an explode limit.. parts wear. if using proper oil there is no reason your pistons should wear faster than normal.. there are plenty of 8-9sec cars that are not in the shop each weekend too.. point is boosted at 600whp with a good tune will last longer than you will probably have the car and onward.. if youre nervous you can replace some of the weaker points to get more ease of mind.

Not sure what is unclear. The goal of the manufacturer is to build an engine that lasts an average of 200k miles. That has been reported widely by GM and Ford. Google it and see for yourself. Everything else I noted in my post and the below is my opinion based on prior experience. You don't need to agree or disagree.

Adding boost adds additional wear on an engine not ideally designed for it. Why do you think people replace things like pistons/rods/crankshafts etc. when they start adding a lot of boost? The Z06 adds forged pistons to an already stout bottom end. Do you believe GM would have done this if the cheaper eutectic pistons of the Stingray were good enough to meet the 200k mile goal with 650 HP?

I was just throwing numbers out with guesses (thus the question marks) about possible life expectancy. My bad. No one can say how long an engine will last with or without boost.

My whole point is the neither the Coyote nor the Vodoo engines were designed to have high levels of boost. You may get 200K miles from the engine with boost. That said, if you bolt a SC to a engine not designed for it, it will likely wear faster than a stock engine and in effect may possibly shorten the life of the engine.

As noted earlier, it may not matter to some given that many of us like building cars and then get bored and move on. What I can tell you is that when my C7 was stock, I did an oil change at 1000 miles. I sent the oil to BlackStone labs to be tested. The test was what I expected from a new engine (excess silicon, copper, magnesium etc). I then had the S/C, Meth, LT's and a tune done by one of the best Corvette shops on the east coast. I was pushing about 10lbs of boost on 93 octane. When I changed the oil 1000 miles after the S/C was put on, the oil report came back with excessive metals in the oil. The report did not sound the alarm bells but said my engine had higher wear than an average LT1 engine with similar mileage. Fluke? Maybe but I think it's just logical that more boost on an engine not designed for it may cause more internal wear.:cheers:

 

[Angry50]

1 case does not make the rule.. telling me the factory is selling these cars boosted with 100k mile warranty with the idea that they will barely make it if at all? i doubt it. tuning can change a lot depending on how conservative a tune is we know you can have a conservative boosted tune that wears less than an extreme NA tune pushed to the limits. so to say that boost is the culprit i cant agree with.

 

[Mustang_Lou]

Mike02z and I are on the same page and no disrespect but I think you're missing his point Angry50.

The factory boosted cars ARE made to last 200k. That's why the internals are upgraded from the non-boosted version of the same engine.

All a good discussion!

 

[Angry50]

Mike02z and I are on the same page and no disrespect but I think you're missing his point Angry50.

The factory boosted cars ARE made to last 200k. That's why the internals are upgraded from the non-boosted version of the same engine.

All a good discussion!

I dont believe any performance vehicle will go 200k with just basic maintenance. youre going to have to replace something maybe not pistons. id be curious to see i know there are boosted coyotes with 100k+ miles on them..

my main point is boost is not going to make a noticeable reduction in engine life. the people pushing their NA applications over 500whp i feel is more stress that a boosted application on a conservative tune making 600whp

 

[Mustang_Lou]

.. and then I go and read about the Shelby Super Snake Anniversary Edition making 750 hp with no upgrades to the internals. :frusty:.

 

[mustang1]

I dont believe any performance vehicle will go 200k with just basic maintenance. youre going to have to replace something maybe not pistons. id be curious to see i know there are boosted coyotes with 100k+ miles on them..

my main point is boost is not going to make a noticeable reduction in engine life. the people pushing their NA applications over 500whp i feel is more stress that a boosted application on a conservative tune making 600whp

probably statistics. There's more that can go wrong , that can result in things like needing a new short block. For example, Voodoo has a bigger oil pump than the Coyote but the S/C Coyote engines are generating more power. And heat.

 

[Mike02z]

1 case does not make the rule.. telling me the factory is selling these cars boosted with 100k mile warranty with the idea that they will barely make it if at all? i doubt it. tuning can change a lot depending on how conservative a tune is we know you can have a conservative boosted tune that wears less than an extreme NA tune pushed to the limits. so to say that boost is the culprit i cant agree with.

You seem to have a comprehension problem. See the word likely and possible? I put them in bold just for you;) Where did I say that you will barely make 100K miles? If you have a Roush then you have a warranty. If you change that Roush tune good luck getting an engine replacement IF you ever need one. If you tune at all you're basically saying bye-bye to your power train warranty should something go wrong whether it is tune related or not. The dealer will still warranty non power train items and may even fix minor power train items as Ford does not require the dealer to send the ECM data for small items. Need an engine, trans or rear? Ford requires the dealer to send ECM data before they will approve a warranty repair. Even if the dealer is your best friend, good luck getting Ford to approve. I wonder why Ford won't approve an engine replacement on a car that was tuned and or boosted by an owner? Hmm...

I'm sure you're just being defensive because you have a supercharged engine and never even considered possible longevity issues.

I'm sure someone will claim the Magnuson-Moss warranty act protects them from a manufacturer blaming an aftermarket part. If Ford says you modified the tune/power train and they refuse to fix it under warranty, they have to prove it... The part most people leave out is it's up to the owner of the car to sue the manufacturer. Then, when it's finally your day in court, after you have already spent thousands in attorney fess, Ford shows the flash count on the ECM does not match with the dealer records and guess what? You lose. Read the warranty.

I love Supercharging my cars and have had 4 Supercharged V8's in the last 10 years. I'm not saying I'm not a fan. I just want others to know that it might not all be rainbows and sunshine if you boost/tune. Let people make their own decisions based on all different opinions.

OK, I'm done

 

[Mike02z]

probably statistics. There's more that can go wrong , that can result in things like needing a new short block. For example, Voodoo has a bigger oil pump than the Coyote but the S/C Coyote engines are generating more power. And heat.

The Voodoo also has the same cast Oil Pump Gear that the Coyote has. I can't imagine that gear holding up for long if you boost a Voodoo and still hit the 8250 red line.

 

[Angry50]

You seem to have a comprehension problem. See the word likely and possible? I put them in bold just for you;) Where did I say that you will barely make 100K miles? If you have a Roush then you have a warranty. If you change that Roush tune good luck getting an engine replacement IF you ever need one. If you tune at all you're basically saying bye-bye to your power train warranty should something go wrong whether it is tune related or not. The dealer will still warranty non power train items and may even fix minor power train items as Ford does not require the dealer to send the ECM data for small items. Need an engine, trans or rear? Ford requires the dealer to send ECM data before they will approve a warranty repair. Even if the dealer is your best friend, good luck getting Ford to approve. I wonder why Ford won't approve an engine replacement on a car that was tuned and or boosted by an owner? Hmm...

I'm sure you're just being defensive because you have a supercharged engine and never even considered possible longevity issues.

I'm sure someone will claim the Magnuson-Moss warranty act protects them from a manufacturer blaming an aftermarket part. If Ford says you modified the tune/power train and they refuse to fix it under warranty, they have to prove it... The part most people leave out is it's up to the owner of the car to sue the manufacturer. Then, when it's finally your day in court, after you have already spent thousands in attorney fess, Ford shows the flash count on the ECM does not match with the dealer records and guess what? You lose. Read the warranty.

I love Supercharging my cars and have had 4 Supercharged V8's in the last 10 years. I'm not saying I'm not a fan. I just want others to know that it might not all be rainbows and sunshine if you boost/tune. Let people make their own decisions based on all different opinions.

OK, I'm done

the whole point was would a boosted coyote go over 100K miles to say that boost alone would noticeably decrease engine life is just guessing.. of course anything pushed harder will change i mean just the difference in driver can adjust how fast the engine wears.. point is coyote is proven reliable with basic boost kits.

 

[Mike02z]

the whole point was would a boosted coyote go over 100K miles to say that boost alone would noticeably decrease engine life is just guessing.. of course anything pushed harder will change i mean just the difference in driver can adjust how fast the engine wears.. point is coyote is proven reliable with basic boost kits.

I get your point and fully understand it. There are a lot of variables. Supercharging and tuning are not all equal as I'm sure you know. Some shops will try and squeeze every ounce of power out of an engine to hit a dyno number that is really useless. Some may thrash on their boosted cars (like me ). Others may just like to have that extra power and rarely use it. All these factors and others enter the equation when talking power train longevity.

I'm talking averages here but my opinion is if you take 2 of the exact same engine, and both are well maintained and have equal mileage at some point the stock internal boosted/tuned engine will show more wear than a totally stock engine. Boost is additional pressure on all aspects of the power train. Additional pressure typically means more potential issues. Wen a power train was designed for a boosted application, it is certainly built stronger internally to handle the additional pressure.:cheers:

 

[terryz]

^^^This is so obvious I cannot believe it has to be repeated several time for someone to understand.

 

[Jmeo]

And what basis do you have to say they will never be as safe? is there a number of cars blowing up do to their unsafe tune?

My only basis is my personal experience over my last three Whipple'd vehicles and I'm just saying........

One, having forced induction does not mean you are dramatically reducing your engines life. Lets be honest, no one in the know should tell you the life expectancy will not change because it will. What I'm saying is with a well maintained engine and driven responsibly you will not dramatically reduce the life expectancy. You should be able to enjoy your car for a very long time without major issues. I say this assuming the proper precautions (I like to call them prerequisites) have been taken like OPG & TS change or at the very least OPG.

I don't think anyone will argue the fact if you are a complete idiot by not maintaining your car with proper oil, oil changes, proper tune, proper octane and driving like it owes you money you will dramatically shorten the engine life.

As far as tunes go I will go as far to say yes, some tunes are too aggressive and written with no regard to proper safety nets to put the highest number they possibly can on a dyno graph, period. These tunes will dramatically shorten engine life.

I have spent countless hours on the phone with Dustin Whipple about how their tunes are written. My car was if not the first, among the first 2015's to be tuned so I was involved throughout the process of them trying to figure out all the new changes Ford made in 2015, and there were a lot of changes. They are done by the very same engineer who writes OEM Ford calibrations. It is written from the ground up to be a supercharged calibration, maintains all of the very same safety features as it comes OEM and tested for hundreds if not thousands of hours in the very same Ford facilities as the OEM Ford cars, through the same durability testing, same cold whether torture.... all of them. Most everyone else has to take your factory calibration and tweak it to work with their said power adder. This adds tons of extra code, may remove or bypass factory safety features and so on.

Granted, Ken B or Lund have great tunes and will squeeze a little more power out of their tunes but I am willing to bet at the cost of durability and longevity. Whipple's tune is far more advanced with its "flight control" settings, gear and tire changing ability and it is designed to be 50 state legal with carb certification.


Bottom line is with proper precautions, maintenance, tune, octane and smarts you can have an engine with a long life without issue.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

removes or bypasses factory safety features and so on and will never be as safe as Whipple's tune.

Hey now, thats a bold claim...
Don't be bundling us up in the "turn everything off club"

I can say that our ProCharger tune doesn't do that at all.
All "safety" things you speak about are intact just as OEM as they are from Ford. All TQ control, knock control, fuel control, adaptations,etc.


:cheers:

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