student debt forgiveness is back

[sk47]

We also need to take the predatory lenders out of the equation. Keep in mind these debts were saddled on them before they were adults

Hello; Had a nephew who was hoodwinked when he first went to college. I do not know details such as who talked him into a loan. What happened I think is when he arrived at college there were tables set up with vendors. Apparently he signed up for some sort of loan without understanding what he was getting into. Anyway my brother started getting a bill right away. I guess my nephew was of legal age so should have known better.

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[sk47]

any specific thoughts about college debt forgiveness?

Hello; Some of us have been making points about the subject all along.

 

[Bikeman315]

Yes, I posted them earlier. Have someone who can read, explain them to you.

So the Dumbercrats promised student loan debt relief and $2,000 checks to anyone who votes for them and that was okay.

No opinion here.

This is a marvelous post. I like the answer to the question, "Is there anything that can be done about it?" No, is a great answer. The left is openly unresponsive to taxpayers and proud of it.

The government is now controlled by people who are utterly intolerant and have complete comtempt for actual taxpayers and working Americans. They want to print money by the trillions of dollars to bribe their mindless minions and buy them into submission and they have the ablity to do it.

Censure of anyone with a contrary opinion is the way of the left in this country and it is getting extreme. If you saw todays news, the leftists are requiring all Army National Guard members sent to DC to provide security be screened to remove Republicans and anyone who might disagree with leftist world view. The Army is gladly complying.

As more and more states become unliveable cesspools of crime, poverty, high unemployment and dispair we can see they all have one thing in common. Leftist dregs from places like New York, New Jersey and Michigan are moving to places like Myrtle Beach, South Carolina because they hate living in the sewers of high taxes, high crime and looking at the poverty and drug infested messes they created.

Then, they vote for same tired old leftists, embrace voter fraud and ride their Rascal scooters down to the local Biden rally to demand taxpayers get soaked and money get printed to try and turn their new home into the sewer they fled.............................................Because this time it will be better.

Sorry, I do not see your opinion here either. And my reading skills are fairly decent.

Please tell me what I am missing. I'm open to hearing your opinion but these political rants are going to get this thread shut off. Just like the last one. Is that what you're trying to do?

 

[Bikeman315]

Hello; Some of us have been making points about the subject all along.

Hi Jeff. Yes absolutely. And, quite frankly I enjoy reading your posts. It is obvious that you have given a lot of thought to the matter. But, there are others who just want to espouse their political agenda. That is no longer allowed on here and should not be tolerated.

That said, we are all kind of making the same points that were brought up on the last thread. At this point nothing has changed so there is no new information to discuss. I'm sure this thread will be shut down as well. Unless we can back off on the politics and stick to the subject.

 

[sk47]

Hi Jeff. Yes absolutely. And, quite frankly I enjoy reading your posts. It is obvious that you have given a lot of thought to the matter. But, there are others who just want to espouse their political agenda. That is no longer allowed on here and should not be tolerated.

That said, we are all kind of making the same points that were brought up on the last thread. At this point nothing has changed so there is no new information to discuss. I'm sure this thread will be shut down as well. Unless we can back off on the politics and stick to the subject.

Hello; I went thru a similar situation on a tropical fish site. I suggested that the moderators take action against the offenders and leave the threads open for those who can abide by the rules. The top mod and I had a long series of back and forth in private messages. Reasons for the mods not being willing to do it that way, were given which did not add up so well. Suppose I could go into more detail about it but not right now.

In the fullness of time, on that site at least it played out that the top mods had a favored world view and used the power of their positions to act against those with a different world view. Such is the nature of things I suppose. Problem is those in a position of power or authority should have a strong sense of fair play. I was a public school teacher and had to find such a path.

So far the discussions on this site have been more open which is a good thing. I have not yet had interactions with any moderators here. A mostly true state of things is almost any subject can have a level of political inference associated. I can generally make points without being too direct, but the background of the politics can be felt.

Closing a thread to all due to the actions of a few just does not seem the way to run a site.

 

[Arknsawchuck]

Hold on cowboy. Exactly where do you read this was actually going to happen. Don't you think assumptions have gotten us into enough trouble over the past four years.


#1 Again Communism and Socialism are two different things.
#2 Gulags are Russian prisons. Concentration camp are where the Nazi's killed over 8 million people. Do you really want to going there?

By the way I do not in any way agree with student loan debt forgiveness but let me ask you this. Where is your anger and indignation for the way the Federal deficit has gone up in the three years preceding COVID. It's OK for the Fed to go into huge debt for major corporations but not for people who do not have as much as some of us do?

Socialism leads to communism. Not all that far apart. And to answer you question...no I'm not ok with the way the gov has been spending. And it goes back further than 4 years. But tied in with this college debt deal, a giant amount of gov spending goes to free stuff for the non working group of people in this country. And yes, way to much goes to other nations for stupid stuff. And if the gov didn't hand out money to corporations we wouldn't have to deal with those damn camaros running around...lol

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Sure. So long as we also stop telling every kid in America they have to go to college or else they'll wind up living in a van down by the river.

Noth'n stopping kids from saying to parents: And if my friends told me to jump off a bridge, I suppose you'd want me to do that too!

 

[VERN]

Noth'n stopping kids from saying to parents: And if my friends told me to jump off a bridge, I suppose you'd want me to do that too!

Please go back to post 1 for an edit-Last sentence added today.

 

[jtmat]

Added 1/14/21 As I recall when I posted this I believe that Biden can do this with a stoke of the pen unilaterally without congress approval which would increase the probability.

The only problem with your comment is that Biden has already said he would not do this by executive order. I believe that was even before they won the two seats in Georgia.

For what Biden wants to do you could pay for it by bringing in existing/funded programs, stop funding the wall, and not fund a missile upgrade. Not that much.

He does not seem to support Shumer's comments. Could that change? Could... not facts yet. I could hit the lottery....

 

[VERN]

The only problem with your comment is that Biden has already said he would not do this by executive order. I believe that was even before they won the two seats in Georgia.

For what Biden wants to do you could pay for it by bringing in existing/funded programs, stop funding the wall, and not fund a missile upgrade. Not that much.

He does not seem to support Shumer's comments. Could that change? Could... not facts yet. I could hit the lottery....

thanks for clarification

 

[Jmtoast]

hard to believe you can do this with an executive order.

 

[sk47]

hard to believe you can do this with an executive order.

Hello; There use to be a more clear separation of powers and functions. I have always heard the "power of the purse" resides in the house and not in the executive branch. The courts only be able to step in if a constitutional question came up. Hard to say what twists and turns will be allowed to happen now.
There are at least two views of the constitution with it's amendments. One is the more conservative view that the constitution says what it means and the traditional meanings hold as they have in the past.
Another view is the constitution is a "living document". I have been watching this for some time and best I can figure is by "living" they mean the traditional can be changed to suit the world views of the time. That such methods of change was, early on, put into place by the process of an amendment to the constitution does not seem to fit with the "living" idea. I guess because the amendment process is so very slow and hard to get done.

I can find fault with both views of the constitution but tend to favor the more traditional view . The traditional view is some harder to change being the greater fault. It can take decades for an amendment to be had. This would be a much bigger problem had the founders done a poor job with the initial constitution. However they put into place a largely good form of governance. Had some serious flaws which have been corrected over time. Slowly corrected I guess, but corrected.

To me the "living constitution" idea is too easy of a process to change meanings. Get a group of like minded folks in the three branches of power and they can rewrite on a moments notice. We have been protected mostly when at least one branch applies the brakes on some changes. That was to be mainly the courts who would at least refer to the written constitution when things got heated.
The more recent example, to my mind, was executive decisions made in the months before the most recent general election. The constitution states that election procedures are to be set by each states legislative body. However in at least five states the executive branches made sweeping changes without any legislative involvement. So the election procedures in place by legislative action were usurped with things such a memorandums of understanding. Not sure why the courts did not step in to correct this.

Executive orders, to me, were the executive branch ways of dealing with something new or a situation not previously dealt with in law. The courts could then examine the orders to see if they met constitutional standards. Sometimes the order would be upheld and other times would be stopped and forced to the congress to addressed.

Seems the last few decades executive orders have become more and more used. Largely because the congress was stalled so much, I guess. Trouble is one president/governor can make such an order and if the congress does not enact the order into law the next president/governor can do away with it and write one of his/her own.

I do not know that an executive order can forgive federal student loan debt. I get the campaign promise sort of thing. This ought to fall to the house since it is a spending thing with confirmation by the senate to make it law. If my comments have been followed you all know I am against federal student loan forgiveness. I would hope the expensive notion would be a part of a more deliberative process.

 

[Strokerswild]

I demand reparations for footing the bill for my engineering degree on my own, and without loans....

 

[Jmtoast]

I demand a tax credit for all the years before I owned a house!

I demand tax credits for the children I will never have!

I demand tax credits for all the things I could potentially buy, for a business I could hypothetically start!

I want a job with the TVA, and a cut of that New Deal money.

I want my 160 acres of tillable land!

do you how how to till 160 acres? Does your wife know you’re thinking of becoming a farmer?

 

[sk47]

I demand reparations for footing the bill for my engineering degree on my own, and without loans....

Hello; You hit on one of the arguable problems with federal student loan forgiveness. Going to college can be paid for in ways other than getting a federal loan. I had a federal loan but also took on the private bank loan of my first wife. In addition I worked as much as I could while attending college. Some may be able to pay their own way solely from work or savings.

I am not aware of the details in the proposed student loan forgiveness. There appears to be little distinction about it. My take is if you owe a federal loan some amount or perhaps all will be forgiven. A "picking winners and losers" sort of approach. Winners being those who took on a lot of federal loans and losers those who went some other, non federal, way to pay for the same costs of going to college.

There use to be a principal applied to federal actions. That being an equal application of federal funds, power or whatever. The equality of hiring or renting a place to live for examples. I do no see how loan forgiveness of some select group is equal treatment for others who have college expenses which are not federal. I need to come up with better examples.

There is something that may be worth a mention and could be a hint about how twisted the thinking has become with regard to fairness. In the relief package recently passed because of the Covid19 virus there are apparently some funds in place for small business help. However I have heard a few stories as to how there is an unequal application based on race or ecthnicity. The way it is being reported is the small businesses of one ethnic group will be given preference over all other ethnic groups. Not seen the details so cannot say this is so, but saw such a report last evening. This just does not seem fair or equitable. All ethnic groups pay federal taxes at the same rates but then one group gets special preference. It is not like the covid19 virus damaged only the small businesses of one such group. Small business of all ethnic groups were damaged by the lockdowns and effects of the virus regardless.
I get that so far as I know federal student loan forgiveness is not an ethnic thing, but the analogy should apply. The federal government should not be favoring one group over another.

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