Steering angle sensor reset with alignment?

[MD18EcoStang]

I recently installed Eibach Pro-kit lowering springs which they say will drop the car approximately 1 in. I just scheduled an alignment for tomorrow, and also asked them to clock/reset the bushings. He said the alignment would be $199, and about .5 - 1 hour for loosening/retorqing the suspension, which sounded ok to me. Then he mentioned that since it's a newer car (2018), I'll probably need the "steering angle sensor" reset (I think that's the word he used) for another $125. This was something I'd never heard before, so I'm wondering, does it make sense? Is it necessary? I never mind paying for what's needed... Just want to be sure.

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[TeeLew]

I recently installed Eibach Pro-kit lowering springs which they say will drop the car approximately 1 in. I just scheduled an alignment for tomorrow, and also asked them to clock/reset the bushings. He said the alignment would be $199, and about .5 - 1 hour for loosening/retorqing the suspension, which sounded ok to me. Then he mentioned that since it's a newer car (2018), I'll probably need the "steering angle sensor" reset (I think that's the word he used) for another $125. This was something I'd never heard before, so I'm wondering, does it make sense? Is it necessary? I never mind paying for what's needed... Just want to be sure.

So this would be a re-zeroing of the steering sensor to make sure it was pointed straight ahead when the car was going straight. This will have some sort effect on the stability control of the car, but probably a small one. Likely the ECU is continually learning where the 'zero' of the steering is through a long-term modifying term in the algorithm (similar to a long term fuel trim) by comparing to lateral acceleration.

TL;DR - I'd pay *maybe* $25-50 for this, because they will have to plug into the car, but it's literally 15 seconds worth of labor for a possibly moot service. You can also just get ForScan and do it yourself.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I know that Ford's EPAS includes active compensations for drift-pull and nibble, which would be expected to need to adapt to varying needs depending on road ant other conditions.

I don't think the basic steering angle sensor setting/adjustment would be involved in that, so I would not expect any learning for it to be present.

Odd stability control behavior can occur if the SAS is too far out of adjustment (ESC may think you're steering less in one direction than you actually are, and more in the other. When it compares those against the yaw sensor (to see how well your steering matches up with what it thinks the car needs) you could get delayed ESC behavior in the first direction and needless ESC intervention in the other.

$199 sounds like too much to pay for a SAS reset, but then again neither of the cars I've owned that had ESC ever needed to have that done.


Norm

 

[TeeLew]

I know that Ford's EPAS includes active compensations for drift-pull and nibble, which would be expected to need to adapt to varying needs depending on road ant other conditions.

I don't think the basic steering angle sensor setting/adjustment would be involved in that, so I would not expect any learning for it to be present.

Odd stability control behavior can occur if the SAS is too far out of adjustment (ESC may think you're steering less in one direction than you actually are, and more in the other. When it compares those against the yaw sensor (to see how well your steering matches up with what it thinks the car needs) you could get delayed ESC behavior in the first direction and needless ESC intervention in the other.

$199 sounds like too much to pay for a SAS reset, but then again neither of the cars I've owned that had ESC ever needed to have that done.


Norm

I'm fairly certain that whatever sensor the EPAS uses for steering rack displacement will be on the CAN bus and used throughout the car (Anti-lock, damper control, Traction control, Stability control, rearview camera projected path, etc). I'm also fairly certain that it will have a function to continually compare lateral acceleration and/or yaw rate with steering. If lateral accel and yaw rate are sufficiently small, then steering must be straight. The steering offset value will constantly be chasing the actual steering sensor output.

In fact, I bet a good way to check the zero point of your steering sensor is to put the car in reverse with the steering wheel straight and see how close to straight the projected path lines are on the screen. Now turn put a 90 deg. steering wheel input in on both directions. Does the projected path see even side-to-side? If zero steering shows straight lines and the steering input looks the same on both sides, I bet you're good.

 

[MD18EcoStang]

$199 sounds like too much to pay for a SAS reset, but then again neither of the cars I've owned that had ESC ever needed to have that done.


Norm

$199 was for the alignment (a bit high IMO, but whatever). The SAS service was quoted as an additional $125. If this is something that's needed with every alignment, $325 seems pricey...

 

[Rod Schneider]

For what it's worth, in my 2016 factory shop manual, there is no mention of doing any kind of steering angle sensor reset in the alignment procedures................

 

[MD18EcoStang]

For what it's worth, in my 2016 factory shop manual, there is no mention of doing any kind of steering angle sensor reset in the alignment procedures................

Thanks. Kind of what I was thinking, but just didn't know for sure. I'm going to ask them to hold off on this procedure, unless there's a symptom that needs to be addressed. FYI, my appointment was changed from yesterday to this afternoon.

 

[MD18EcoStang]

Well, I was in the shop the entire time my car was worked on. I questioned them about the SAS reset prior to starting the job and both mechanics said it was definitely necessary with the alignment. I'm not even sure when the actual reset occurred, since I think it must have been just a couple of clicks on their Hunter Hawkeye computerized alignment system. So, yeah, an extra $125 on top of the $199 alignment seemed pretty steep, but I guess it'll help pay off their investment. Since I mostly do my own work, I don't mind paying now and then, and at least I felt like they were honest and competent. Was the SAS reset really needed? Maybe, maybe not, but at least they thought it was...

 

[Norm Peterson]

I do suspect that for very small toe adjustments, especially those where the left and right toes are adjusted in equal amounts and both in either the roe-in or the toe-out diretion that SAS adjustment might not be entirely necessary. But the alignment guy would have to keep careful track of how much adjusting and re-adjusting he was doing and where he was doing it.

It's somewhat more important to reset the SAS in cars that have advanced driver assists such as adaptive speed control, lane-keeping assist, and automatic emergency braking. These systems depend on the sensor alignment being in agreement with where the suspension and steering are pointing the car, not just the latter two being in agreement with each other and physical steering wheel centering.


Norm

 

[TeeLew]

I talked to a friend that has >20 years engineering at GM. He said that both the stability control & EPAS will have algorithms to find steering 'zero'. Resetting this will only matter for a short period of time. After an hour or two of driving, the car will have found 'zero' automatically, similar to how the engine ECU will adjust & compensate fuel & spark values for different fuel quality.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I talked to a friend that has >20 years engineering at GM. He said that both the stability control & EPAS will have algorithms to find steering 'zero'. Resetting this will only matter for a short period of time. After an hour or two of driving, the car will have found 'zero' automatically, similar to how the engine ECU will adjust & compensate fuel & spark values for different fuel quality.

Does Chevy's EPAS include the same algorithms for drift-pull and nibble compensations that Ford's EPAS has since 2011?


Norm

 

[TeeLew]

Does Chevy's EPAS include the same algorithms for drift-pull and nibble compensations that Ford's EPAS has since 2011?

Norm

No idea on that one.

 

[bankyf]

I just aligned my 2020 on my Hawkeye Elite yesterday and the only prompt I got was for lane keep calibration. In fact, I have never seen a prompt, nor have I ever reset the SAS on any Ford vehicle. They stole your $125 unless you have LKA(and it's still high for that) and $199 is excessive unless you added aftermarket adjustable components. .5-1 is very reasonable to to retorque everything. Can you post your alignment sheet? I'd be interested to see what they did for $199.

 

[MD18EcoStang]

I just aligned my 2020 on my Hawkeye Elite yesterday and the only prompt I got was for lane keep calibration. In fact, I have never seen a prompt, nor have I ever reset the SAS on any Ford vehicle. They stole your $125 unless you have LKA(and it's still high for that) and $199 is excessive unless you added aftermarket adjustable components. .5-1 is very reasonable to to retorque everything. Can you post your alignment sheet? I'd be interested to see what they did for $199.

I knew their price for the alignment was high going in. Another shop near me quoted $139, but then cancelled the appointment on the morning of, saying their alignment rack was down. They never called back to reschedule. So, this shop got the job because they could get me done the next day.

Fyi, I do have adaptive cruise control and lane keep. What can you tell from this printout? Btw, I asked if there was a printout related to the SAS reset, but they were unable to pull it back up, citing a software problem.

 

[bankyf]

I'll address the alignment sheet first. Everything that was adjustable was actually already in spec when they pulled it in. The steering wheel wasn't straight when they initially rolled it which is why the front toe is off. The steer ahead gives that away. They did actually bring it in a little though. For the rear toe they brought the left rear in to meet the right rear, but they should have brought both in closer to center. My guess is that centering the rear toe would have pushed rear camber out requiring them to make that adjustment. Rear camber is adjustable, but it is a total PITA. We charge $89.95 for an alignment, and for that I would have left the rear camber alone. If I charged $199 and didn't adjust that rear camber I wouldn't have slept well that night. All in all, they did 10 minutes worth of work for $199, At that price I would expect everything that is adjustable (front and rear toe and rear camber) to be as centered on the graph as possible. I'm not one to go back and complain, but if you are you have every right to based on what you are showing me.
As for the LKA calibration, the Hunter machine initiates the procedure and the tech just needs to drive around for about 10 minutes. Hardly $125 worth.... If they didn't go on a roughly 10 minute test drive, they didn't calibrate the LKA. FWIW, the calibrations seem to be not as critical as the manufacturers elude to. I always end up driving my vehicles around for a few days before running the calibrations and have never had any issues with lane keep. I wasn't aware that there would be any documentation for having run the calibration, but then again I have never checked Hunternet to see.
Next time, drive to VA and save $200. I would have charged $200 or less for the same thing and would have done a better job.

One more thing I would like to address regarding your Hunter promo screenshots. While alignments are profitable, keep in mind that quality alignment equipment is the single largest equipment investment that a shop will make. This setup is about $50k with annual specification updates costing extra. The usable life of the equipment for most of us is 5-10 years with some maintenance expenses expected throughout.

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