Roush Stage 3

[MightyMouse95]

I have a 2015 RS3 and I’m looking to make more power, but go about it the right way. My last car was a 2013 5.0. That car was a N/A build with minor bolt ons, tuned by Lund. I’m new to the supercharger game so any input would be helpful. I’m thinking Roush phase 2 upgrade with a custom tune, should I stick with Lund or go a different route? Should I change the CAI, if so what CAI would be the best choice. I want to do kooks LTH again with high flow H Pipe. I ran 1 7/8 LTH on my 5.0. Since this car has a blower on it, should I use Kooks 2 inch LTHs? Is it even worth changing out the stock headers? Any information would be appreciated, just looking to build this car in the correct order that makes sense and get the best bang for my money.

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[Angrey]

Headers should be at the top of your list. They'll make more power at any level and sound great. Best of all, the more power you make from the motor, the more drastic of a change it is over the stock manifolds.

As far as 1-7/8 vs 2" both will flow great, the 2" will shift the peak torque value higher in the RPM (as will swapping manifolds for headers). The more restriction, the lower your peak torque will occur in the rpm range. You might see a slight increase in power going with 2" (over the 1-7/8") but it won't be noteworthy until you start to get REALLY high in power levels, the biggest difference will be where the torque peaks. You'll also probably have an easier time selling the 1-7/8" if that's even a factor for you.

After the headers, you can do a cold air intake (although I'm sure the Roush is pretty good) and pulley down and spin the blower harder (any of these will require a retune by the way) and I'm personally a big fan of E-85 for it's safety and additional power. Headers, CAI, small pulley and E-85 should wake it up very nicely.

 

[ugstang17]

A real tune by Lund, VMP, or PBD will be the best place to start. They offer reasonable retuning (VMP has free retuning if you purchase through them) on all mods. A 79mm pulley and larger FI's is where to start first. LT's on the 15+ offer great advantages because unlike the 11-14 models you can't simply pull the cats off and put in an OR pipe or the classic tubes from Jegs that woud go in place of the cats and still run the factory H. The drivers side cat is a permanent part of the header. There is one weld in kit to eliminate the cats and still retain the factory headers (made by MAC) but obviously not just a simple swap out like 11-14's. Headers will help a lot no doubt. But I woudl place that third on the list and focus first and foremost on larger fuel injectors, smaller pulley (if your kit is the 670 setup with the 85mm pulley), a BAP (again if not the 727 HP Roush kit) and a tune. Even on 93 octane the 47's that come with the kit will not keep up once you pulley down to a 79mm (suggested) and retune. Stick with the Ruoush box. It flows nicely. If you think you have to have a CAI then stay away from the JLT 125mm unit. Hard to tune for full drive ability from personal experience. It can create some tip in issues at low RPM because it does not flow air as smooth as the Roush unit. That said the PMAS is a very good and smooth flowing unit. You get what you pay for. Tuners relish the PMAS because of its metering and even flow which makes drive ability so much easier to dial in.

So 56# minimum FI's (DI 1050X's are the choice option) , a 79mm pulley (if you are running an 85), a boost a pump (VMP makes a great unit that does not require cutting the wiring harness) and a tune from one of the 3 I mentioned. Being you have a stick shift the three are equal in their ability IMHO. If you had an auto the story would be different only due to the auto tuning side of the process. So feel confident with any of the three. DO NOT GO WITH AN SCT DEVICE ON THE S550 platform. I love those guys for the S197, but the nGauge or equiv from VMP or PBD is a much better option. Speaking from experience not opinion.

Going this route now allows you to expand down the road to LT's and ultimately E-85. E-85 will require a serious fuel system upgrade, but the ID 1050x's (the 56#'s will not) will be enough to suffice for more than enough HP you will need on the street. And should you need or desire to upgrade and push even more boost by adding an OD on the crank down the road, the ID 1050's are very easy to sell vice the 56's so you can upgrade.

Best of luck. I'm on my fourth FI setup currently and looking to get back into an S197. Just enjoyed the 13,14 so much more than this newer platform. And yes it will be boosted. Once you no what it feels like to be blown, you never can get enough.

BTW - wish to lose 100 pounds of dead weight? Debadge the Roush emblems (28 last I counted on one of those cars)!! LOL!

 

[SolarFlare]

Some exhaust mods, heat exchanger and a reputable tune will wake it right up. I think you’ll need injectors as the car comes with 47s or 56s. I’ll have some 1000s for sale tomorrow if that’s the route you want to go.

 

[MightyMouse95]

A real tune by Lund, VMP, or PBD will be the best place to start. They offer reasonable retuning (VMP has free retuning if you purchase through them) on all mods. A 79mm pulley and larger FI's is where to start first. LT's on the 15+ offer great advantages because unlike the 11-14 models you can't simply pull the cats off and put in an OR pipe or the classic tubes from Jegs that woud go in place of the cats and still run the factory H. The drivers side cat is a permanent part of the header. There is one weld in kit to eliminate the cats and still retain the factory headers (made by MAC) but obviously not just a simple swap out like 11-14's. Headers will help a lot no doubt. But I woudl place that third on the list and focus first and foremost on larger fuel injectors, smaller pulley (if your kit is the 670 setup with the 85mm pulley), a BAP (again if not the 727 HP Roush kit) and a tune. Even on 93 octane the 47's that come with the kit will not keep up once you pulley down to a 79mm (suggested) and retune. Stick with the Ruoush box. It flows nicely. If you think you have to have a CAI then stay away from the JLT 125mm unit. Hard to tune for full drive ability from personal experience. It can create some tip in issues at low RPM because it does not flow air as smooth as the Roush unit. That said the PMAS is a very good and smooth flowing unit. You get what you pay for. Tuners relish the PMAS because of its metering and even flow which makes drive ability so much easier to dial in.

So 56# minimum FI's (DI 1050X's are the choice option) , a 79mm pulley (if you are running an 85), a boost a pump (VMP makes a great unit that does not require cutting the wiring harness) and a tune from one of the 3 I mentioned. Being you have a stick shift the three are equal in their ability IMHO. If you had an auto the story would be different only due to the auto tuning side of the process. So feel confident with any of the three. DO NOT GO WITH AN SCT DEVICE ON THE S550 platform. I love those guys for the S197, but the nGauge or equiv from VMP or PBD is a much better option. Speaking from experience not opinion.

Going this route now allows you to expand down the road to LT's and ultimately E-85. E-85 will require a serious fuel system upgrade, but the ID 1050x's (the 56#'s will not) will be enough to suffice for more than enough HP you will need on the street. And should you need or desire to upgrade and push even more boost by adding an OD on the crank down the road, the ID 1050's are very easy to sell vice the 56's so you can upgrade.

Best of luck. I'm on my fourth FI setup currently and looking to get back into an S197. Just enjoyed the 13,14 so much more than this newer platform. And yes it will be boosted. Once you no what it feels like to be blown, you never can get enough.

BTW - wish to lose 100 pounds of dead weight? Debadge the Roush emblems (28 last I counted on one of those cars)!! LOL!

Im a buy it once be done with it kinda guy, so will the 1050s be all I need and E85 compatible and just upgrade the fuel system should I need it (doubt I’ll be pushing that much ever lol) Or should I look at something different and be done with it. Also if I’m understanding you right, if I upgrade to the 727 I don’t need to get a BAP? Wolnt be running E85 unfortunately, none around me. And just stick with the pulley that’s comes in the Phase 2 727hp kit then?

 

[hossman]

I had a 17 with Roush Phase 2 so it had the 80mm pulley and BAP. When I upgraded the Roush set up I went through VMP.

I upgraded....

Pmas 120mm Intake
79mm Pulley
VMP Triple Pass Heat Exchanger
Reische 170 Degree Thermostat
FIC1000 Fuel Injectors
VMP 67mm Throttle Body

The upgrades were installed by VMP and custom dyno tuned by VMP.

Put down 679 on 93 octane
Put down 722 on 100 octane(93/Boostane)

I put 16,000 miles on the car with this set up and ran flawlessly and not one issue or trouble code.

You really can’t go wrong with Lund, VMP or PBD.

If you want to run a more efficient blower you can swap out the Roush 2300 and get a VMP Gen 3R head unit swap.

 

[ugstang17]

Im a buy it once be done with it kinda guy, so will the 1050s be all I need and E85 compatible and just upgrade the fuel system should I need it (doubt I’ll be pushing that much ever lol) Or should I look at something different and be done with it. Also if I’m understanding you right, if I upgrade to the 727 I don’t need to get a BAP? Wolnt be running E85 unfortunately, none around me. And just stick with the pulley that’s comes in the Phase 2 727hp kit then?

First the 727 package has a BAP, 80mm pulley and 47lb injectors. The 1050's will more than suffice and will allow you to take the 80mm pulley into E-85 without going static should you decide to modify the fuel system and go that route. All three tuners I mentioned will tune and prefer ID 1050x's on that setup. The ID 1050x's should easily support LT's, adding a larger twin 67mm TB if you choose, adding the PMAS CAI if you choose, and allowing the car to operate safely into the higher RPM range without running out of injector or fuel pump. E-85 wll only require fuel sytem delivery upgrades if you go E-85 at the 80mm boost level (about 10-12psi depending on exhaust setup). My current setup runs the ID1050x's, twin 67mm VMP TB, and a crappy JLT 125mm CAI (was on the car when I bought it or I would have put a PMAS on the car). I have cats and stock manifolds and a 6R80 auto and the car makes 631RWHP at 7300 RPM at 18 degrees of WOT timing. Autos don't produce as much HP on the dyno as a manual shift car. I lost about 45RWHP when I swapped my setup on my 13 MT-82 car to a 14 6R80 car. But it was worth it at the track.


OH! one more thing. You will also need to purchase an IAT swap kit. The 15-17 needs this 100 dollar kit when you retune through any tuner. I don't know the details, but for some reason tuners are unable to tap into the IAT2 temp data PID on the 15-17s. The IAt sensor on the ROUSH has to be replaced, and the harness that comes with it reroutes the IAT2 sensor into the IAT sensor that would be on the MAF. Works great and in fact is very nice because your IAT2 temps (way more imoportant that IAT on a PD setup) are now see on the dash rather than IAT in the gauges section. The tuners shoudl tell you about this as well.

With a similar recipe you should make more through the MT-82. Add LT's and remove the cats and you will be making even more.

Choose your tuner. Then ask what they recommend. Each tuner is different...even down to spark plug gap. Make sure you have good 93 in the car. Make sure your MAF is clean. Make sure your TB is clean. Make sure you have NO unmetered air leaks between the MAF and the TB after you do modifications. Add a can of octane booster to the tank of fuel before you start doing datalogs. These cars are notorious for false knock. Tuners are notorious for blaming the fuel when this happens. So beat them to the punch on this. Also make sure nothing on your exhaust is loose or leaking. Loose exhaust is notorious as well for generating false knock. And leaks forward of the O2 sensors can cause issues with false lean conditions. Observe your vacuum at idle before you begin and make sure after your mods are complete it reads the same or better. Run the plugs of the tuners liking and gap them to what the tuner asks. Buy a fresh set so they have no reason to question plugs should something arise.

Down the road you may wish to upgrade the HE and or recirc pump for better heat removal. Also with that HP and the loss of clutch protection strategies currently in the Roush overly protective tune, you will need to consider a clutch upgrade as well. So plan for that. But get all you can from the current one first.

ENJOY!

 

[MightyMouse95]

I had a 17 with Roush Phase 2 so it had the 80mm pulley and BAP. When I upgraded the Roush set up I went through VMP.

I upgraded....

Pmas 120mm Intake
79mm Pulley
VMP Triple Pass Heat Exchanger
Reische 170 Degree Thermostat
FIC1000 Fuel Injectors

The upgrades were installed by VMP and custom dyno tuned by VMP.

Put down 679 on 93 octane
Put down 722 on 100 octane(93/Boostane)

I put 16,000 miles on the car with this set up and ran flawlessly and not one issue or trouble code.

You really can’t go wrong with Lund, VMP or PBD.

If you want to run a more efficient blower you can swap out the Roush 2300 and get a VMP Gen 3R head unit swap.

Seems straight forward

 

[MightyMouse95]

First the 727 package has a BAP, 80mm pulley and 47lb injectors. The 1050's will more than suffice and will allow you to take the 80mm pulley into E-85 without going static should you decide to modify the fuel system and go that route. All three tuners I mentioned will tune and prefer ID 1050x's on that setup. The ID 1050x's should easily support LT's, adding a larger twin 67mm TB if you choose, adding the PMAS CAI if you choose, and allowing the car to operate safely into the higher RPM range without running out of injector or fuel pump. E-85 wll only require fuel sytem delivery upgrades if you go E-85 at the 80mm boost level (about 10-12psi depending on exhaust setup). My current setup runs the ID1050x's, twin 67mm VMP TB, and a crappy JLT 125mm CAI (was on the car when I bought it or I would have put a PMAS on the car). I have cats and stock manifolds and a 6R80 auto and the car makes 631RWHP at 7300 RPM at 18 degrees of WOT timing. Autos don't produce as much HP on the dyno as a manual shift car. I lost about 45RWHP when I swapped my setup on my 13 MT-82 car to a 14 6R80 car. But it was worth it at the track.


OH! one more thing. You will also need to purchase an IAT swap kit. The 15-17 needs this 100 dollar kit when you retune through any tuner. I don't know the details, but for some reason tuners are unable to tap into the IAT2 temp data PID on the 15-17s. The IAt sensor on the ROUSH has to be replaced, and the harness that comes with it reroutes the IAT2 sensor into the IAT sensor that would be on the MAF. Works great and in fact is very nice because your IAT2 temps (way more imoportant that IAT on a PD setup) are now see on the dash rather than IAT in the gauges section. The tuners shoudl tell you about this as well.

With a similar recipe you should make more through the MT-82. Add LT's and remove the cats and you will be making even more.

Choose your tuner. Then ask what they recommend. Each tuner is different...even down to spark plug gap. Make sure you have good 93 in the car. Make sure your MAF is clean. Make sure your TB is clean. Make sure you have NO unmetered air leaks between the MAF and the TB after you do modifications. Add a can of octane booster to the tank of fuel before you start doing datalogs. These cars are notorious for false knock. Tuners are notorious for blaming the fuel when this happens. So beat them to the punch on this. Also make sure nothing on your exhaust is loose or leaking. Loose exhaust is notorious as well for generating false knock. And leaks forward of the O2 sensors can cause issues with false lean conditions. Observe your vacuum at idle before you begin and make sure after your mods are complete it reads the same or better. Run the plugs of the tuners liking and gap them to what the tuner asks. Buy a fresh set so they have no reason to question plugs should something arise.

Down the road you may wish to upgrade the HE and or recirc pump for better heat removal. Also with that HP and the loss of clutch protection strategies currently in the Roush overly protective tune, you will need to consider a clutch upgrade as well. So plan for that. But get all you can from the current one first.

ENJOY!

So instead of going and doing all this at once, that’s say I were to do it in stages, what would be the way to go about it that makes the most sense.

 

[MightyMouse95]

Seems straight forward

I had a 17 with Roush Phase 2 so it had the 80mm pulley and BAP. When I upgraded the Roush set up I went through VMP.

I upgraded....

Pmas 120mm Intake
79mm Pulley
VMP Triple Pass Heat Exchanger
Reische 170 Degree Thermostat
FIC1000 Fuel Injectors

The upgrades were installed by VMP and custom dyno tuned by VMP.

Put down 679 on 93 octane
Put down 722 on 100 octane(93/Boostane)

I put 16,000 miles on the car with this set up and ran flawlessly and not one issue or trouble code.

You really can’t go wrong with Lund, VMP or PBD.

If you want to run a more efficient blower you can swap out the Roush 2300 and get a VMP Gen 3R head unit swap.

As I was looking through VMP, they offer a Phase 2 upgrade rated 767hp (683 RWHP)

• 82mm Pulley

• VMP Twin Jet 67mm Throttle Body

• 56LB Injectors (Options to upgrade to FIC 1000, ID1050x or ID1300x) +$700 for ID1050x

• Fuel Injector Height Adapters

• VMP Fuel Pump Booster

• nGauge tuning device

• VMP Level 3 Custom Tune

This whole kit would cost me $2900. The only thing that would appear off from what everyone is saying to get is it runs a 82mm pulley not a 79mm, but for $140 I can just buy a 79mm Pulley anyways if it really matters. So looking at $3000 in parts to go that route.

OR
I pieced together your build just changed to ID 1050x

79mm pulley $135

PMAS 120mm $400

VMP Dual fan Tripple bypass HE $875

170 thermostat $60

ID 1050x $1100

VMP BAP $360

Custom tune $1000

$3900 RWHP?
Unless I’m doing something wrong here it would cost about $1000 more this way to make about the same RWHP?

 

[ugstang17]

OPTION 2 -

1.) less the 79mm pulley - you already have an 80mm. Not worth changing.

2.) I suggest upgrading your intercooler pump and going with the non fan triple pass. Your IAT's will do better as the fans really don't help much at all from personal experience with this unit with fans. They now offer the non fan unit triple pass. Combined with higher flow and the fans not blocking the face of the heat exchanger you will do better overall.

Good luck and enjoy.

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